HELP! Severe Stomach Pain on Carnivore when any plant based food in TINY quantities are eaten


(Edith) #42

Sometimes when we remove something from our diets to which we have an intolerance, our bodies become hypersensitive. Sounds like that is what is happening to you. You may find that after you have been carnivore for a while and your body has done some healing you can slowly reintroduce some other foods. I would give your body some healing time first.


#43

I’ve been on carnivore for about a month now (did so to lose some weight and for overall health benefits) and have just recently tried reintroducing veggies and have had such bad stomach pain. I’ve never had intolerances before, i drink coffee just fine, but for some reason anything not carnivore just destroys me. Dairy doesnt seem to be an issue either. It’s all very odd. Does anyone have any suggestions?


#44

What kind of veggies did you reintroduce and how much of it? Generally I suggest to take it slow. Also, maybe try different kinds of veggies. For example solanaceae might cause issues but not others.


#45

Yes. There could be a variety of issues. Not everyone thrives on keto or carnivore. Avoid veggies. The very first thing in the morning, take a red apple (organic), peel off the skin, and eat a quarter of the skin. Slowly increase the quantity of apple skins to 4 apples every morning for about a week. If there are no issues, it should take about two weeks. Akkermansia is the bacteria that will start to grow and start the process of healing your gut biome. Then introduce blueberries (Bifidobacterium). These two protocols have a synergistic effect and have been shown to heal “leaky gut” and get your gut biome back on track.

There is this belief that some hold that the gut self-regulates on carnivore. I am not sure of the science here, but is it not based on the inputs given?


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #46

My suggestion would be to remain carnivore. Let your body settle down, then, if desired, reintroduce plant foods one by one, to discover which is the one that causes the reaction. Then you will know what to avoid.

It is possible to become habituated to a toxin; addicts, after all, find that they have to keep increasing the dose of the substance in order to continue getting the same effect. Then after a period of abstinence, they often find that they need less of the substance to get the effect. So an alcoholic who has been sober for a while will often find, upon returning to drinking, that he gets drunker more quickly, because he has regained a measure of sensitivity to the alcohol.

The primary benefit of fibre in the diet is supposedly the butyrate produced by the bacteria that eat it. (They also produce methane, but that’s neither here nor there.) The butyrate is supposed to heal the intestinal lining.

However, among its many benefits, the ketone body β-hydroxybutyrate has been shown to have the same beneficial effect on the intestinal lining as butyrate, so that many people on a ketogenic diet find that they can dispense with fibre entirely. And even more so for carnivores.


(Robin) #47

Your body has been given a clean slate and can now identify specific foods as “good or bad’. I would believe your body right now. Mine also rejected veggies, and I am a previous vegetarian.
I also learned that veggies were the trigger behind my flair ups of diverticulitis. After 3 years, I am able to tolerate them but only if cooked to mush, so what’s the point.

You may very well be able to reintroduce them later, in small doses, and see if it’s a particular veggie or all of them.

Best of luck. You got this!


(icky) #48

I’ve read this with interest… I’ve had irritable bowl syndrome for 25 years… sigh… I remember very clearly the night it started. I had had very bad sinusitis and had been given anti-biotics for it and it just wouldn’t go away, so I think I was on the anti-b for about 10 days and then got such intense pain that I could barely speak to tell my Dad that he needed to take me to the ER. The doctors there thought it was appendicitis… sigh… and after they ruled that out they were like “Uhh… dunno…?” and sent me home… I was so furious but too weak to protest…

Anyway, many many years later, I found out that it must have been Clostridium difficile
( https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/c-difficile/symptoms-causes/syc-20351691 )
Basically the anti-b kills all the “good” bacteria in your gut, which leaves room for a certain type of “bad” bacteria (C. difficile) to thrive and basically poison your gut… sigh…

Anyway, ever since I’ve had IBS… It took about 5 years from the symptoms to go from “hugely uncomfortable and causing me daily pain” to “annoying background noise that causes discomfort and only occasional bouts of severe pain”.

These bouts of severe pain are so similar to what people have been describing in this thread… Especially the feeling cold thing, which I always found really weird… And it always happening a bit after a meal… I’ve never been able to work out what it was and what caused it… And the bleeping-expletive Dr’s sure haven’t been able to work it out either. The closest thing I’ve found that pretty much describes it is called “Dumping Syndrome” (very fancy name, huh) ( https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/digestive-diseases/dumping-syndrome ) and/ or ( https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/dumping-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20371915 ) which mostly affects ppl who have had bariatric surgery, from what I can tell… I haven’t had surgery, so I dunno why I’d have that - maybe somehow related to the IBS…? But yeah, it’s the closest description I’ve found so far to these weird “episodes”…

I don’t know what sets them off… Never really been able to identify a pattern to it. I’ve wondered whether it’s coffee that sets it off in my case, but I’m not sure one way or the other.

From what I’ve read here, the gut bacteria imbalance thing resonates with me the most… That by eating carnivore for an extended period of time, all the fiber and plant and carb digesting bacteria die off from lack of food source and then the other bacteria fill the void and dominate your intestinal flora. (Sort of similar to the anti-b selectively killing off some of my gut bacteria 25 years ago and then leaving the remainder to flourish and become dominant.)

I know this might be contentious, but for me, this thread has been a strong warning sign (for me personally) that I will not go carnivore or anything approaching it and that I will make sure to have some fibre and veg carbs in a broad mix added into my Keto diet each week, to make sure I keep that pouplation of bacteria alive and present in my gut.

Other than that I’m going to keep a more focused eye on my gut now… (I’m 3 and a half weeks into Keto) and will watch how the Keto diet improves and/ or worsens any of my IBS symptoms and gut health and sense of gut “comfort” as I go.

I hope everyone in this thread finds a solution that’s tailor made and helps with their symptoms (whether that’s sticking to carnivore forever, or doing it for long enough to heal your gut, or trying to re-introduce fibre/ veg in tiny doses, or taking pro-biotics or whatever…) IBS and intestinal pain is just awful… It can be such stabbing, searing pain… Like many of you have written, literally rolling around on the floor in agony… And then, for me, after 5 or 10 or 30 minutes… Once the attack has passed… Things are suddenly back to being (more or less) “fine” again. Just as myterious as the onset is, so is it’s being over…

Wishing us all good luck and gut health and healing, in whichever form…! :purple_heart:


(Robin) #49

Wishing you good results. I would place a bet on you!


(icky) #50

Btw… re pro-biotics to help restore gut bacteria population… Given that stomach acid nukes a huge proportion of the pro-biotics taken orally, I’ve long been considering this option as a way of avoiding the stomach acid issue:


#51

How do you know what probiotics you are missing and how much to supplement with? What is the overall state of the gut biome in carnivores? With only one input, does this not suggest that eating a carnivore protocol may have limitations in the long term?

Titrate with very, very small amounts. For example, one blueberry per day, then, if tolerable, increase to two per day etc… Most will be able to accommodate this level. This will help repopulate the gut with healthy bacteria in a natural way. Bifidobacterium (blueberries) are among the first microbes to colonize the human gastrointestinal tract and are believed to exert positive health benefits on their host.

While supplements do have their role, when it comes to the gut biome, it’s probably better to give your body real food (prebiotics) and allow it to work its magic as opposed to giving it something it may not need.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #52

The same is true of vegans, but no one seems to raise that issue with a meat-free diet. :grin:

Prof. Bikman and Dr. Mason both state they find that the intestinal bacteria change with diet. Mason talks about Firmicutes and Bacteroidetes spp. I forget precisely which ones we want where, but the idea is there is one type that lives or should live in our mouth, and the other, in our intestines. When we eat the wrong foods, we find the wrong species in the wrong place, and that’s when trouble begins, apparently.

Now, that is very sound advice. After all, it’s not as though our ancestors could run out to a health food store and pick up the supplements they needed, lol!


#53

I 100% agree. I have vegan relatives. The husband has had nothing but stomach problems for the last 30 years and could lose about 40 pounds. His wife thrives on it, yet they work, live together, and eat the same food. Unfortunately, the husband is now seeing a doctor as his gut is very inflamed. They are the militant type of vegans. “No way in hell.” It’s not worth having a conversation with. The husband may be forced by his doctor to change the way he eats. We will be watching this from the sidelines as the fireworks begin.