HELP! Severe Stomach Pain on Carnivore when any plant based food in TINY quantities are eaten

(Cathrine Helle) #7

As we’re approaching Christmas, this is something that slightly concerns me too :o I have no desire to go back to plants on a daily basis, but there are some things I would like to taste to get the full Christmas experience. My gut is steadily improving, and I would hate to reset everything to scratch for sentimental reasons. If I decide to go off plan it will most definitely be on stuff that’s as benign for the gut as possible. Hopefully my gut will be fine with small amounts, but I really have no idea :confused:

(mole person) #8

I do a sort of leaning heavily carnivore sort of diet and it doesn’t lead to this issue in spite of giving me respite from all sorts of distress that a more carb/fibre rich diet inflicts. First I continue to use vegetables for meat flavouring. A bit of chopped onions, garlic, a bit of diced tomato or tomato paste, even a celery stalk and /or carrot in a stock or pot roast. I also have a small serving of a vegetable that I know causes no distress once or twice a week, usually a half avocado or something from the cabbage family. Most days I have 1-2 olives as well. I doubt I average even 5 g of carbs/day. In spite of leaving in these incidental vegetables I feel much better than I did before. It’s also left me feeling well enough that I can see instantly now what is REALLY causing my biggest issues whereas before it was impossible since I was always in some sort of distress and nothing could stand out.

(Sondra Rose) #9

Google FODMAPS intolerance. I can do very, very small amounts of low FODMAPS plants, but avocados and other high FODMAPS fruit cause very painful gas and bloating in extremely small quantities, so I avoid!

(Ryan Hoover) #10

What is so strange, and kind of the point of this post, is that I didn’t have these food sensitivities before I went Carnivore. I’m trying to find someone with a similar story but it’s been impossible. Thanks for the feedback.

(Sondra Rose) #11

I think my tolerance was certainly higher pre-Carnivore, but I did have similar, but less intense symptoms and just thought they were “normal” and that I had simply eaten too much.

(Bunny) #12

When you eat meat only your going to have more Bacteroidetes than Firmicutes which will make it more difficult to digest dietary plant based fibers as you can see here in Jeff Leach’s desert experiment.

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Carnivore is good to heal a leaky gut especially with bone broth for food allergies like histamine intolerances and auto-immunity problems with foods but I would not stick with it permanently because those intolerances can be cured by reintroducing those foods you were allergic too back into the diet, most peeps don’t understand how this is possible and the reason is because the leaky gut allows foods that you eat to go directly into the blood stream rather than being digested properly by stomach acid, digestive enzymes (some foods may make it past this process), and then to the gut flora biome in the duodenum, small and large intestines!

BTW: with a leaky gut the immune system attacks itself; the food in your blood stream including taking with it your body parts in the process e.g. arthritis: immune system attacks the cartilage or anti-bodies eats the cartilage away and to compensate for the loss of cartilage the bones (joints) try to fuse together…

Carnivore is very therapeutic but not a permanent solution! I know I am going to catch hell for saying this but people need to know the TRUTH!

(Ryan Hoover) #13

It seems obvious that I have disrupted my gut biome by eating carnivore for 60 plus days but man I’m having problems getting it back in line. Even a tiny amount of fiber, carb or sugar will have me bent over in pain for up to six hours. I’m taking probiotics, digestive enzymes and eating small amounts of fermented foods but in reality…it hasn’t helped at all. I was NEVER this sensitive before.

#14

My logic is piping up and saying well maybe it is that you have simply become more sensitive to issues you had before but that were not so apparent because you were simply used to a low level chronic discomfort? It reminds me of doing an elimination diet to weed out potential issues with different foods.

I’m going to see if I can get Amber O’Hearn to weigh in on this.

People like Amber who feel well only when eating carnivore and have been doing so for a long time (and plan to do so permanently) would disagree. I take issue with anyone saying that their opinion is TRUTH. We know by now that there is never one truth to any situation. I am not saying your argument is not valid for x no of people but it is not a blanket truth that applies to everyone.

(Chris) #15

Well said, Daisy.

(Betsy) #16

Ryan, can you drink coffee?

Do you ever get headaches or insomnia?

(John) #17

Have you tried an animal-based carb in a small quantity? I am thinking something like Fage Total 5% yogurt. Has all of the good active cultures, is primarily protein and fat, but still has a small amount of carb (3g carbs in a 100g serving) from the naturally occurring lactose. I am talking like trying 1 Tbsp like you have been doing with the kimchi.

#18

If you had lurking intolerances prior to carnivore, your body was probably just trundling along dealing with those foods.

Once you stopped them, the coping mechanism was down graded. So re-introducing them will kick off bigger symptoms than before.

2 choices. Cut them out again and decide that you are intolerant and should continue to avoid the foods. Or reintroduce them slowly, to rebuild your coping mechanism.

Interestingly, my problem with veering off carnivore foods doesn’t seem to be food intolerances (which was a surprise) it seems to be fibre. As in ANY veg fibre causes unpleasant rucktions for several days. So I can eat v low fibre non-carni stuff with virtually no problem (except that it affects blood glucose) but any fibre… no thanks. Just not worth it. I’m rather wary of trying to re-build my fibre tolerance, because… well… Disaster Pants!

(Ryan Hoover) #19

I tolerate coffee just fine. I don’t have insomnia, actually get great sleep and fall right to sleep. Great energy with workouts as well. Oddly I can tolerate hot sauces as well. But something like chili powder could send me over the edge. It’s really hard to see patterns.

(Ryan Hoover) #20

I haven’t tried that but I will. I eat beef liver which has trace carbs and am fine with it. On days that I eat beef liver and eggs I may get as much as 10grams of carbs. Doesn’t bother me at all.

(Ryan Hoover) #21

this makes a lot of sense to me. I really enjoy the benefits I get from Carnivore and part of me just wants to make it permanent. I’ve always had low level issues with fibrous veggies but never with nuts, seeds, PB or even a burrito say on a cheat day. Of course it’s hard to tell if there was an issue and I was coping without even knowing it. I’ve actually stopped my probiotics and am leaning more towards staying carnivore and avoiding the foods. But damn I’ll miss avocado and PB!!!

(Bunny) #22

I would go absolute carnivore but it would have to be a wide variety of meat, organ meats, fish and would have to be collagen rich whale and seal skin, and blubber and maybe some fermented seal flipper with traces of a little C in it, raw and unsaturated with some raw wild unsaturated land mammals and some occasional berries unfortunately that would be hard for me to achieve at my local grocery store and farmers meat market!

#23

One of the things that carnivores usually say to support this way of eating is that it is ‘healing’.
In other words, it eliminates the constant damage that ‘normal’ eating does to us, and allows our own bodies to recover from previous damage. Gut becomes less permeable. Immune system steps down off high alert. And so on.

So it may well be that a period of full on carnivore will allow your body that ‘healing’ and you could reintroduce some of the foods you miss.

Sorry about the ‘ ‘ around ‘healing’, but is a term that irritates me intensely, mainly because people use it as a catch all to justify dietary mysticism.

#24

Depending on the quality and source, some chili, curry powder, paprika etc can have cheap coloring additives which are not labelled and can be a trigger of allergy or sensititivity.

Make sure of the quality of the product.

(J Nieuwland) #25

Yes, I’ve been searching for people with similar effects on salad. I ate it once with a durum, I was so sick I vomited out anything, even water and had servere diarrhea. I don’t remember much, but my boyfriend said that I told him everything was morphing, and that I was delirious. I remember not being able to think, and I was just like a worm with a lot of pain. And as with you, it stopped suddenly and I could eat a lot. I craved chicken so much I ate 1 kg. Without any problems.

Now, the 2nd time, I ate a little bit of salad beside some chicken. My stomach cramps up all the time, and I have acid now for 2 days. It’s not as bad as last time, but I only ate a very small amount.

I read somewhere that the fibre in plants slightly tears your bowelsystem, because your stomach can’t break it down. I don’t know how much of this is true, but since my reaction on any plant I try to eat, and especially salad, is so extreme, I tend to believe it’s true.

For me, that also goes for sugar, but not lactose. I can eat different kinds of lactose without a lot of problems. I only poop more when I do that.

I’ve started the carnivore diet because of arthritis (I’m 34, I could hardly walk sometimes because of the pain, etc) and this fixed it. Also my ptsd is in control and adhd weighs less heavily on my life. I really like the effects of carnivore on me, because both my mental and body health has greatly improved in a few months.

#26

and this is only a few months! There is tons more great benefits to come! ZC will be a whole new you in time!

Happy you are doing so well. Rock on!!