Hello+Keto Friendly Cheat

(Justine Bishop) #1

Hi, nice to meet everyone! I’m Justine. I’ve lost 32lbs so far and I’m down to the last few pounds.
My question is: How detrimental is a cheat day that consists of keto friendly food? By that I mean, usually staying within my carb limit on a cheat day, but eating more and enjoying less healthy keto treats such as ice cream?

I am 5’2" and 34 years old. I weigh about 114lbs. Yes I am reasonably thin but… After all the keto and exercise I still just look… Watery? Jiggly? It’s small jiggles, sure. But I can’t shake the last 10. Been struggling for a whole year. And I don’t think more restrictions are going to work for me (mentally). I do intermittent fasting, cardio and strength training and I’ve even tried fat fasts. They are temporary losses. Is it my age? Are my “keto friendly cheat days” ruining me now that I’m at the last few pounds? If so… I think I’m done. I can’t live with no pleasure, I’m human!

Thanks for any advice!

(Old Baconian) #2

If you are keeping your carb count under 20 g/day, is it actually cheating? :grin:

Seriously, the point of a ketogenic diet is to keep insulin low by avoiding carbohydrate. The amount of calories you eat is less important than the type of foods you are eating. The idea, in fact, is to “eat to satiety;” in other words to eat only when hungry, to stop eating when no longer hungry, and not to eat again until hungry again.

I find that my appetite will vary from day to day, and it doesn’t always seem to coordinate with how active I am that day. But some days I just need to eat more, and other days, I’m not really hungry. I find it helpful to listen to my body and trust that it knows what it’s doing.


You must be thin (well you wrote that too), I would gain muscles if I want a better look but of course I don’t see you…

It’s very individual what is healthy for someone so I definitely can’t say anything about keto ice cream and the like (I don’t even know what it is in them, we don’t have such things here). My ice cream is perfect, I make it myself :smiley: But if I add about anything else occasionally including toxins (alcohol), sugars and whatnot, it still wouldn’t be noticeable (it’s not like I ever lose fat on keto just because I have a lot to lose and I am not sensitive to get unwell just because I eat not ideal things for one day) - while others touch some sweetener and it cause problems for them… I probably wouldn’t touch store-bought ice cream because of my personal blacklist and choosiness… But it’s individual too. Some people eat them every day.

Sweets may trigger eating more and I suppose, they can change something in the body that is against fat-loss but again, it’s individual…

And if you eat something that is considered cheat for you but you do it very rarely, it shouldn’t really affect your fat-loss anyway… Doing it 3 times a week may be different but maybe not. My body likes to balance things out so unless I massively overeat, it’s hard to undo weeks of very good eating and I actually need stronger (more calories) days here and there when losing fat… Maybe it does good to my metabolism, I don’t know but I feel the need for them.

I am a hedonist. I enjoy the hell out of almost every meal of mine. Don’t you like your food? Keto food can be super tasty! :slight_smile:
(I don’t say I don’t understand liking sweets though that desire pretty much disappeared on carnivore in my case. I ate cakes all the time on my original keto… It’s so much easier with meat… :D)

(Justine Bishop) #5

Yes, I love my keto meals. But I am very prone to binging. If I have even a little of something that even mimics sugar or biscuits I go a little nuts. And even when I’m full I psychologically struggle with wanting more. So… I am hedonistic by nature too. Very. But I can’t give into those tendencies because once I start it’s extremely hard to stop.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #6

A ‘keto-friendly cheat’ is not a ‘cheat’ if it’s truly keto. But I suspect what you’re really asking is if it’s OK not to stay in ketosis all the time. It’s your choice. You’re still young, you only ate SAD for 3 decades. Even so, it damaged your metabolism although very likely not irreparably. Keto will fix it if you stick with it. Keto will fix it quickly and more completely the more consistently you stay in ketosis. Most folks find the last few pounds the most difficult to shed, but they will eventually go away. You have a great opportunity to have a healthy and long life. Or not.

One of the keys to success with keto is an attitude adjustment from being focused on what you ‘gave up’ to being focused on what you gained. I don’t know what you’re eating, but I eat better on keto than I ever did eating SAD. I don’t live with no pleasure from food. Although I probably don’t obsess about it as much as you.

How much you eat is less important than what you eat. Keto is not the low carb version of CICO. If you have cravings for carby/sweet stuff, then you will have to sublimate that onto something else. Many folks share that problem and you might find helpful suggestions on the forum for dealing with it.

Best wishes whatever you decide. :+1:

(Justine Bishop) #7

Michael, I am asking what I asked, which is if I keep my carbs in the appropriate deficit during caloric upticks with fewer veggies and more keto treats it will throw me out of weight loss. Not can I stop my keto diet. I’m sorry if I did not word it well. Thanks!

(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #8

What is a caloric uptick? What is a keto treat?

While the popular ideas about CICO is not supported here ( eat less and move more ), your body is less likely to burn stored fat if it is meeting energy demands from the food you eat.

Keto is not a type of food, although food processors and people selling diet plans would like for you to believe it is.

Metabolic ketosis happens when there is a limited supply of glucose for your energy needs and your liver produces ketones by metabolizing fat. Again, the liver is less likely to draw upon fat stores, if your dietary fat and carbohydrates ( glucose ) are meeting your energy needs.

(Old Baconian) #9

The actual picture is, I believe, a bit more complex than this. Up to certain limits, the body can adjust its metabolism to cope with scarcity and abundance. I have never had to cut my hair and nails so frequently in my life, as I have since going keto. Nor have I ever sweated so much at night. Apparently, my body has found things to spend energy on that it didn’t spend it on before. And in the process, eighty pounds of fat have vanished and not returned.

Of course, Dr. Phinney’s advice to “eat to satiety” is for people whose hormones work properly. But if someone finds him- or herself eating a great deal during the first few weeks of a ketogenic diet, that doesn’t mean that all those calories are unneeded. I still remember with great vividness making it halfway through a meal, one lunchtime, and suddenly realising I was done. This was around three or four weeks into eating a ketogenic diet. It was my first experience with satiety in decades. Up till that day, eating to satiety had meant eating pretty much the same quantities of food as I had eaten as a carb-burner. Nowadays, I eat only two meals a day, for the most part. I am just not hungry enough to want three.

This is not to deny the reality of carb cravings, for those of us who are addicted to carbs. But I have to say that when I am eating enough ketogenic food, I don’t go on carb binges the way I used to, even if I eat some bread or French fries. And I’ve been without sugar long enough that sweets don’t particularly appeal, thank God. Though I don’t dare test that, for fear of reversing that taste change and bingeing on doughnuts again, lol!

(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #10

I agree it is very complex, and and the countless N=1 examples out there are testament to this…

My personal thinking tends to lean toward Occam’s razor and suggests, why should your body go to the trouble of metabolizing stored fat when everything it needs is right there in the blood…

I understand carb ( beer ) cravings… Sugar is a drug.

(Old Baconian) #11

Phinney says his data show that the increase in metabolic rate, particularly fat-burning, causes the body to metabolise both dietary and stored fat. In the absence of elevated insulin, of course.


I’ve been thinking about this post all evening. It sounds like you’ve worked very hard at keto and your weight loss over the past year.

Speaking as someone who was once in the position you’re in, I would suggest not scale chasing. I was obsessed with seeing a set number on the scale and it was completely counterproductive.

I might be way off the mark, so apologies if I am - but it sounds more to me as if you’re hungry, or the foods you’re eating aren’t quite satiating you, and that’s causing you to crave something as a treat.

You mentioned lower down about a calorie uptick on certain days - am I right in thinking that you’re following a calorie restricted version of keto? Or at the very least, setting your calories and then following them?

How’s your strength training going? I ask because I would be inclined to suggest eating more protein and focusing on your strength training - that will likely do more for your body recomposition than following a number on the scale.

Some people here post about reverse dieting - to increase their metabolism after a period of extended weight loss; if you’ve been following a calorie restriction or doing a lot of fasting, you might find those posts of use.

(Justine Bishop) #13

Thank you. This was helpful!