Hello everyone :)

[islandlight]

Hi Jenny. It’s nice to read about such great results. Not only for you, but for your bf and daughter.

I get definite bad signals too, from most plant foods. It makes it much easier to stick to the plan!

[Shinita]

After the dietary guidelines were introduced, it was the constant hunger attendant on eating so much carbohydrate, that eventually led to the advice to eat several extra times a day, as a means of coping with that hunger.

It was the opposite to me. Carbs make me hungry so I ate so big carby meals (full with fatty proteins as I needed something to get satiated with and I probably desired the nutrients as well) that I was satiated for a long time… Small meals would have driven me crazy but it would take some serious outside force for me to eat like that…

My SO is different from me, he gets satiated wonderfully with a super carby meal too but he still needs biggish meals and they keep him satiated for a very long time again.

But I guess there are every kinds of pattern with different probability…

Still, how could many little meals help? How can people get satiated with a tiny carby meal? It just makes me SUPER hungry! (Or did before fat adaptation and my many low-carb years, I react to carbs somewhat differently now and I never am very hungry.) I know we are all different and there are people who NEED many little meals (and can’t even eat any other way) but getting satiated by small meals can’t be very common if most ketoers don’t have this…
But indeed, I heard many times that small meals satiate people, they just get hungry soon. Odd. To me as my family members need bigger meals for satiation, it varies how long it lasts and how much protein and fat and calories are needed in it.

On keto, we are back to the notion of eating only when hungry, and eating enough at each meal to satisfy hunger.

I did that on high-carb and low-carb and can’t do it when I go really low but maybe I will learn one day. But isn’t it normal to eat until we get satiated? Sometimes I forget people aren’t hedonistic enough but isn’t it important for them? It feels bad to stop eating when hungry?

Most of us find we can go hours between meals

But who CAN’T go hours between meals? Or how many hours we talk about, I often think about this when I read this…
(Of course, me being me can’t go hours between meals on carnivore sometimes. I have 3 hour everywhere else. I can’t guess what I would do on LF as that’s impossible for me. I did it twice in my life, once on HC, once on keto, it was fine for that short term.
Meanwhile HC makes OMAD ridiculously easy for me - if I want to do it, it’s not automatic.)

Back when I was young, everyone knew that carbohydrate was fattening, so we avoided it.

Wow. Here no one knew that so all my anchestors ate high-carb in the last thousands of years, probably. But as far as I know, it was the case practically everywhere.
(I know carbs aren’t fattening, actually. At least not directly, for my family. I got fat because I overate. I overate because I overate fat due to overeating carbs though… Too bad avoiding carbs don’t make me lose fat but it is one key to the stupid multiple-lock door…)

[J_Nieuwland]

So recognisable! My mum in law is actually the opposite, she said: this diet perfectly suits you. Without being sarcastic (which is her main character treat ahaha) she encouraged me to keep it up, because she sees the effect.
Also my daughters teachers support me putting my child on Keto, and they actually think that making new and different paths in life is a pro instead of a con. She goes to a great school, with loads of support and very little judgement. Hardly any computers and phones are only allowed inside their backpacks.
OK back to the subject, I kinda ate the same for a while. “Healthy” bars, tonnes of fruits, but everything low in fibre. I already figured out that eating bread and other stuff like that, makes my intestines blow up, and I can’t poop for a week (no joke) and have weird abdominal pains, like some blob thing is trying to move through my body. And when I eat it, it also seems like (I doubt this is true, but it feels like this to me) the food just passes through my stomach without any action and goes straight to my intestines. I already ate low fibre since I was about 25 of something I guess.
My mum is very very weird with food, there’s no consistency in that with her, except that it always has very little meat. When I lived with her, my symptoms were the worst, when I moved out(19), it got rapidly a lot better already.

[J_Nieuwland]

Hah this I’ve been wondering. How would a world be with only Ketos and Carnivores? A WHOLE LOT MORE RELAXED! I am convinced a great part of mental disease, bodily disease, and bodily discomforts which always taunt people from approximately mid 20’s isn’t boosting their mood at all. I do think we’d be able to evolve slowly into a better society, with more tolerance, friendship and honesty.

There are absolutely countries in which people eat basically low fat high carb, because that’s my county. The Netherlands. Where basically Dutch people try to live on leaves and bread. It’s discouraged here to eat meat, and use insects as a protein source. I am convinced eating insects will get us even further away from our natural food habits, since a lot of insects produce venom of any kind. Their bodies can’t provide us with much needed fat. Only reptiles eat bugs, and since I’m not a reptile, I won’t eat bugs. Just like I won’t drink milk because I’m not a baby cow. Our government is trying to reduce our meat production (we are the biggest meat producers in the world, but it all gets exported) and it’s very expensive. Atm I mostly live on eggs and beef, and some chicken. I figured out that the hormones and antibiotics in pork get to me and give me servere moodswings. I know they do it, my old neighbor was a meat farmer and he keeps pigs. There is no health benefit from standard pork, but I can eat swine without any problems.
It’s great how your eating habits naturally evolved into a diet that suits you, imo that’s the best way to be on a diet in the first place. I’m convinced that a part of humanities frustration comes from this. They have instincts, but are taught to ignore those instincts and eat stuff that doesn’t even come close to being food in the first place. Feeding instinct, and finetune character makes better people is my opinion.
The base is food, and when food is fcked, humanity is fcked.

[J_Nieuwland]

Hah, this is most true! I’m training my body to get used to fewer, but bigger meals. What I want to try, is to eat like a lion or a bear. One meal every 2 or 3 days, a huge meal, and live on water for the rest of the time. I heard it works, so as soon as I have some time off in December, I am going to do it hahaha

[J_Nieuwland]

Idk how to quote @Shinita

Here no one knew that so all my anchestors ate high-carb in the last thousands of years, probably.

This is because Europe was introduced to fake food way before America. Over there it just went a lot faster!

[J_Nieuwland]

Thanks so much! Glad to read it works well for so many people, I wonder why people are so adverse in their reactions. Maybe fear of the unknown hahaha

[Shinita]

It’s discouraged here to eat meat

Sigh. I so hate these. I never noticed things like this here - until lately. Now even the ad paper for supermarkets (IDK if there’s a term for it, my SO calls it “spam”, he distributed them when he was young :D) talk about choosing lean meat and cooking it without added fat… But there are 2 pages about super fatty pork sales afterwards so it’s not so bad yet. And meat eating isn’t discouraged, just fatty meat eating. I rarely hear about anything against red meat but we barely eat such things here. Beef production and consumption is diminishing, at least it did in the 10s I have data about, we mostly eat pork and chicken, 4% other, 4% organ, 4% beef. But people are sensitive to prices and beef is luxury food.
I personally live on pork and eggs, mostly but I prefer pork anyway.
I just learned very recently about low-fat high-carb countries, it’s crazy! I thought, unless one is living in some extremely poor country where fatty protein sources are expensive, people choose fatty, carby food as that is the “tasty” thing for them. If I look at treats and takeouts and whatever, it’s usually fatty and carby. Lots of yummy fatty meats and whatnot. Sure, some “health-conscious” people go into some other direction and some of us have some knowledge and experience to stray from that original path but that’s it. And nope, it seems low-fat richer countries exist. Wow. I can’t even imagine eating low-fat, it’s so abnormal to me… The average Hungarian eats almost as much fat as me and I eat too much (the average Hungarian is bigger and more male though and overeats of course as they eat my fat intake AND a huge carb intake as well). So we seem to be super good at ignoring some advice like little fat and lean meat. I doubt it will happen in the near future, it’s against our tradition, tastes and all the fatty pigs should be eaten…
But sunflower oil won decades ago Margarine is popular too though it’s very well known it’s not good, I read it everywhere. People still use it in cakes galore as it’s WAAAAAAAY cheaper than butter. And prices are too important here. Many people use the bigger half of their income on (cheap) food, after all. We can’t just say that for “health” we start to starve on higher-quality food or eat but stop heating the house or something. I still don’t think any is actually forced to eat margarine, we are that poor and we don’t, or sugar or sunflower oil (well in the last many years when paleo got popular, sugar alcohols and coconut oil got way closer to their more traditional counterparts. well the traditional fat was lard and duck fat, sunflower oil is more recent but before paleo came, sunflower oil was the only cooking oil option. and some olive oil, maybe but that was very expensive and used in trendy salad recipes, mostly. at least we had butter… okay, lard too, it just lost its popularity. my Mom was a peasant girl when little and even she cooked with sunflower oil! she ate pure pork fat tissue though… no one can talk people out of it if they like it and during my childhood no one told me lots of fat is bad. so I ate plenty of animal fatty protein. more than I should have, probably… I ate a lot but carbs made me hungry. no one told me I shouldn’t eat high-carb either, of course, everyone ate like that).

I am sure masses would stay high-carb - but if the people who care about their health more and cling to their bread or candies or cakes less, they probably would change their diet after seeing how much good a different approach can do. It still would be way better than what we have now, only a tiny fragment of people trying out low-carb and keto. But many people aren’t willing to do anything for their own health, waiting for pills and surgeries only. Heaven forbid they make any effort to be and feel way better! I don’t understand people. But some like me are open, they merely need to be pointed to some direction… I arrived at low-carb at 35 years old but it would have been nice to do it WAY earlier. I think my fatness (I had that all my life but it got worse with time and I had enough) and paleo getting popular in Hungary was what showed me the way. I was lucky and open. But I had no idea how much low-carb can help to people. The paleoers (at least the ones here, paleo in different countries are different because people are like that) call most of the food toxic (I totally disagree with some, by the way) but it’s too vague (and too agressive)… If I had some bothering health issue (I mean, everyone has something not perfect but of course we care less about tiny ones), I probably would love to find potential solutions with a not small chance for success. Cheap, easy, I just cut out a few items… Why not to try it? I am open to things I am not super sure I can’t do (like low-fat. impossible) or harmful (why would be not eating high-carb items for a little while harmful? can’t imagine).
So I actually find it sad we don’t get encouraged - but the stupid BS we get from different media? That’s totally horrible. And I am open, I live with someone thriving on HCHF, I am not against plants (just plant carbs more than in minimal amounts in my own case. and my minimum is tiny. 1g a day? that’s cute, I may go higher but not every day)… But this borderline fat phobia from even official sources… Sigh. I am glad our people keep eating fats - but not when they do it with tons of carbs and using the bad kind.

Some people wouldn’t get benefit from keto but I am sure many would. Or low-carb. Keto is very restrictive for many and I personally didn’t find mere ketosis more beneficial except fat adaptation - but low-carb was amazing and I immediately knew I never could be a high-carber again, I am too much of a hedonist for it I sacrificed nothing (if it was really needed, I could even go off for an hour or day, still fine) and things got better! Pure win. I would have been an idiot to refuse that. And all it took some determination, curiosity and cutting out the carbiest items (that wasn’t even hard, I am really lucky. but I felt healthy, a sick one with hope should be even more determined than I was). The changes were pretty much immediate! And it’s often the case at diet changes. Not always but quite often. Just a short trial and the body reports that hey, it’s so much BETTER! And very much doable. It’s amazing. But people don’t even try. They usually don’t even know there is a chance low-carb would be good for them. It’s tragic. It causes so many problems…

I might have carried away but I feel very, very strongly about this. I felt healthy on HC and still experienced wonderful changes when I left it. I have read way more amazing things from others. And even with incomplete knowledge, there are just too much for low-carb. Not in everyone’s case but in very many I suppose…
But people even do their high-carb diet in a very bad way too, quite often… People have a problematic attitude and priorities (I am a HUGE hedonist, I base my decisions on joy and I still put health over joy of eating!!! well being healthy is way more enjoyable than being sick it’s still hedonistic) AND the media and official food quides don’t help. It’s just too bad. Let’s hope low-carb gets more popular as people see the results? It won’t be quick and won’t reach everyone but we should accept whatever we get…

Oh and there is the quality of food due to how our food is made… It’s bad enough without choosing our food items as horribly as the average person does. We can’t afford that.

Oh and of course trying low-carb may not be right for someone just because they still choose some bad items for them. Still, in many cases I would expect noticeable improvements and that could point people into the right direction and if they are serious, they would tweak things later? As many of us in this forum did.

Feeding instinct, and finetune character makes better people is my opinion.

You might have a point… A big one at that. It’s great when things click and we just feel right from the response of our body. I definitely had this with food. I often say going really low with non-animal carbs made me a different person. It’s mostly just about the mental things carbs trigger regarding food but food is important and having troubles there affect much. I lost time and got annoyed due to eating wrong… And it did affect me physically and that affects me mentally… Some people respond to such problems more harshly. I still stayed me but a less content and calm one and that can change a lot…

[Shinita]

What I want to try, is to eat like a lion or a bear. One meal every 2 or 3 days, a huge meal, and live on water for the rest of the time.

Sounds extreme to me (for me. my body wants its food each and every day. I just want some short EF but it can’t happen in the last years) but I am curious about your experiences! I hope we will hear about them on this forum!

Wait, one meal that is enough for 2-3 days? That is impossible for most of us I am sure! I can eat a bit over my energy need for one day at most (and even for fat-loss, I need more than that for 2-3 days). So you can eat a ton at once? I am curious what such a meal will contain! I easily could put together a tray for such a big meal without going over my stomach capacity, I just would have serious problems at eating it! Even if I had a 3 hour meal… It would be fun to try though, how far I can go… I surely wouldn’t eat the next days after that. But for now, OMAD sized meals (with the right items and macros and satiation effect) are a big enough challenge for me.