Heart palpitations finally got the better of me

(Toni) #12

Virginia thank you so much, I read through that entire post on your palpitations and I honestly felt like I was almost reading my own story, except at the moment mine is shorter! I have always been such a healthy person, I used to run half marathons and all. I hate the idea of taking any kind of drugs. My resting heart rate is in the 40"s and I get my palpitations when I’m resting or lying around so I am not sure if that contributes.

I think the part about the oxalates/histamines is really interesting. My dietitian did mention those briefly when I saw her, but it was my first appointment so we didn’t get into it much. She was certain that magnesium was the issue. SO I started on 600-800mg a day of mag citrate that she gave me. It really did seem to help and they reduced by less than half in severity. Then I decided to take 2 500mg doses of potassium one day to see if that helped even more, and well the palpitations came on worse than ever. So I didn’t do that again but added more salt instead, only 1tsp to maybe it wasn’t enough. I just go to the point where I felt is was all a bit out of control so I had to take a break.
Interestingly the same as you whenever I took in a few extra carbs in a day the palpitations reduced, and since yesterday when I had chocolate and icecream they have disappeared altogether.

(Toni) #13

Paul thank you. I suspect you are right about the salt, I was putting it on everything I ate and trying to chug some down but ultimately probably still not enough. I think the potatssium I was adding was throwing me all out of balance. I plan to start again soon after a break and will be more diligent with my measurements :slight_smile:

(Toni) #14

FrankoBear I’ve amended my original post to add more detail, if you have a moment to take a look I would appreciate any more insight you may have. At this point from the comments below it definitely looks like magnessium, I may just need to play around more with that.

#15

I’ve never noticed benefits from 18:6 or fasting for more than 24 hours. I’ve only noticed benefits from OMAD(23:1).

If carbs eliminate the symptoms. This tells me a lack of IGF-1.

It would be interesting and helpful for others if you could have a IGF-1 test.

https://kidshealth.org/en/parents/somatomedin-test.html

Niacin 500mg split in half and half taken twice daily is what eliminated my palpitations because niacin increases growth hormone and subsequently IGF-1. However my heart issues are due to covid.

(Toni) #16

That’s interesting I’ll read up on it.
Yes I have tried OMAD and 24 hour fasting regimes.
Personally for me the idea that the Keto approach stops you feeling hungry all the time is the thing I hope to achieve.
I feel my entire life I’ve been food deprived and hungry, I could literally eat all day, be full and still eat. I’ve controlled it my whole life, but I just want a solution where I dont constantly feel hungry or think of food. On OMAD I was starving for about 20 hours a day.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #17

@tonib

#18

Many people confuse stress for hunger, needing to poop for hunger, air pollution for hunger and other oxidative stresses for hunger.

#19

Hi Toni. I reckon @VirginiaEdie Edith is the goal kicker for you. I’m so glad she joined us.

I’ll take this in sections as I am working on a project that needs to be done by tomorrow night.

The potassium dose and worsening heart palpitations is the part I’d like to tackle.

1000mg of potassium. I’ll go and search the standard dose… 1000mEq is the maximum dose and that is about 3900mg. So it doesn’t look like an overdose. But that is an average person dose. Most of these averages have been worked out on testing males. If you are replete in potassium from dietary sources adding an additional dose may have some effect. Sometimes it is laxative. Other times it is on the heart.

I know, from clinical practice, a patient’s heart can stop if a potassium dose is not well mixed into intravenous fluids and a higher concentration bolus runs in. Potassium is something to be very careful with, in my non-medical opinion. (I am not a doctor. I’m just interested in health).
https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/potassium-supplement-oral-route-parenteral-route/proper-use/drg-20070753

The other bit of information you provided is a resting heart rate in the 40s. That is very fit or possibly a bit slow? It’s likely fitness :slight_smile: But it’s at the low end of normal.

So, here is how I see the potassium episode played out. You have a low heart rate as a baseline. That varies with the palpitations. So you started supplementing extra electrolytes. That may have slowed the rate again (improvement noted).

However, if the heart rate is slow, to you it’s normal, and you have a normal beat (normal pQRST complex on ECG - electrocardiogram), then to achieve that slow rate there is usually an extended delay between the T wave and the next p wave for the next beat (the blips on the heart monitor screen).

It is in that extended period between beats where extra beats (ectopic beats) are likely to occur. Depending on which area of the heart contracts they, the extra ectopic beats, have different names e.g. PVC - premature ventricular contraction. We experience that phase of arrhythmia as palpitations as the beats vary in strength and frequency. Eventually those extra beats may flip the heart into fibrillation, usually atrial fibrillation (AF), where the contractions of the heart chambers lose rhythm and start pumping really fast.

So, if your baseline heart rate is ‘normal’ in the 40’s you will likely have to pay close attention to your electrolytes. And potassium’s effect of slowing the heart rate even further may make things worse, as you experienced.

From what you report the cardiologist says your heart structure and function is fine, so you have had the work up there. Did they comment on your observation of your normal expected heart rate? Not sure what tests you went through but you wore the monitor. Did they do any imaging?

Summary: Potassium dosing slows the heart. With an already slow heart rate the heart may respond with palpitations and extra beats, if the heart is slowed too much with a potassium dose. That may have been what you experienced on the day 2 doses of 500mg potassium was supplemented.

Thanks for the brain exercise. remember this is just a forum of ordinary people with a special interest. My suppositions may not reflect the truth of the matter. They are thought explorations. There is more to say and explore but I have to finish that work project.

I’m glad the few added carbs helped directly. Carbohydrate levels and women is another can of worms. By adding a few more carbs it probably helped your kidneys regulate the electrolytes by a slight increase in circulating insulin. But then there is some interesting notes by @anon81060937 about IGF1 - Insulin-like Growth Factor. Methinks insulin is very insulin like. Gah, I’ve got to stop now :slight_smile:

(Toni) #20

You made me laugh. And I’m so happy about what you wrote. First yes I think Edith has had the same issues as I do, I’m following her story closely and adjusting my routine accordingly. Second thanks for the explanation on potassium and heart rate. Although I am no longer all that fit, I think the 20 years of running in my 30’s and 40’s gave me the strong heart and low resting heart rate. Yes I have ectopics and short periods of afib exactly as you mentioned. Specifically on the report it mentions SVE’s including triplets, couplets and isolated beats. Up to 145bpm. As well as sinus rhythm. Minimum heart rate 42.

Even though I’ve been eating carbs all day some palpitations have come back so that’s a concern.

I have found a doctor that advocates low carb so I am going to see him thus week, with more knowledge so I can hopefully get some good advice from him. This group is proving invaluable, I appreciate the time you took to respond. :blush:

#21

Just for information purposes that you may consider.

If I get palpitations I do this:

  1. Dose with magnesium citrate 300mg every hour until gut tolerance is reached (laxative effect)
  2. To swallow the tablets I mix a half bullion stock cube in a mug (300mL) of bone broth. I add extra pink salt to taste.
  3. If available, have an Epsom salts warm bath. If not a hot shower seems to help.
  4. I do yoga breathing. Just basic stuff of long breath in - hold - longer breath out - hold and repeat (It’s very relaxing). Occasionally I will cough as as symptom of the palpitations. But a cough can act as a minor heart defibrillation for some people.
  5. After 2 hours, I will add in another magnesium form. I use magnesium aspartate, as that was the form the emergency doctors used at the local hospital.
  6. Between 6 - 8 hours of persistent AF I will take a 10mg dose of a beta-blocker called propranolol.
    That usually sorts it out.
    Otherwise I drive in to the ER and say I have chest pains… then it’s on to the hospital roller coaster.

The cardiologist and my primary care doc wanted me on the beta-blockers all the time like a preventative. But I said no. I did not like the side effects that came with the blood pressure drop.

I reckon that with a slow baseline heart rate (mine is about 60) that slowing it more with a beta-blocker then sets up the whole ectopic beats scenario again. I don’t want to fight my heart with drugs. Beta-blockers would be a concern with your already low resting heart rate. They are useful when in atrial fibrillation, but not a long term medication, in my opinion in this context.

(Toni) #22

Thank you again. Tonight I’ve been reading up on oxalates, I think I’m overdosing on those big time. I’m considering a quasi carnivore diet but need to research it more. It goes against almost every thing I believe to be “healthy”, lol.

(Ethan) #23

Some say that it’s best to taper off the oxalates than go cold turkey because of the flood of released stored oxalates

(Edith) #24

I went through a phase where my resting heart rate was climbing into the upper 60s. Mine is usually in the upper 50s. I tried potassium citrate but it irritated my stomach. What I do now, is I create a salt mix of four parts salt to one part No Salt (potassium chloride) and I use that mix for my salt supplementation. My resting pulse went back down to its normal rate. Like @FrankoBear mentioned, if your pulse is already that low, potassium may not be an issue.

The low energy is because your muscles need to transition from sugar burning to fat burning. That takes time and it is a transition, not a switch. Your muscles and energy will gradually improve. It’s not like a switch where your body suddenly says, “I am now a fat burner!” I was 51 when I started keto. It was about 8 weeks until I started noticing an improvement in my energy.

Are you drinking that much because you are thirsty? You could be depleting yourself of electrolytes from flushing them out with too much water.

What @EZB said is true. If you do think oxalates could be a problem, you will need to taper your intake. You mentioned following a vegan diet. You may have a lot of oxalate stored up so maybe do some research into oxalate dumping. This topic has also been discussed in various threads on the forum. There is a Facebook group called Trying Low Oxalate which has a wealth of information. It is very science driven and led by an oxalate researcher with nutritionists as moderators.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #25

If you are eating a low-carb ketogenic diet, you are no longer plagued by chronic elevated insulin levels. This means that insulin is no longer blocking the receptors in the hypothalamus that recognise leptin. Leptin is the hormone secreted by the fat cells to signal the brain that we have enough energy stored (as fat) to be able to stop eating for a while. When the brain receives this signal, it secretes other hormones that stop us from feeling hungry. The result is that on a ketogenic diet you can afford to eat until your hunger is satisfied. Don’t eat by the clock, simply wait until you are hungry, then eat. Eat until you are no longer hungry, then don’t eat again until you are hungry again. This is a lot easier than trying to starve ourselves.

At first, relying on your hunger and satiation signals, you may end up eating quite a bit. This is not a problem, because your body probably needs the extra food. Then suddenly, you will find yourself not wanting food. For me, this happened in the middle of a meal, and it felt really weird, because I was used to filling up my plate and not stopping until the plate was empty (and possibly not even then). Over time, that lack of hunger has become really strong. It’s not like eating in the old days, when my stomach would be full to literally the point of bursting, and I would still be ravenous. These days, it feels as though my stomach has plenty of room for more food, but I don’t want any more; I am satisfied. And all because I’m not eating carbohydrate. Who knew?

(Edith) #26

I’ve mentioned this before, but I believe it’s because your body now has all the nourishment it needs.

I don’t get a “taste” for anything any more. I enjoy my food when I eat it, but there is no longer that thought, “I could really go for a _____.”

(Toni) #27

thanks, I know I need to change my mindset after a whole life of trying not to eat too much. I need to trust that my own body can learn and teach me, I will follow our advice. I am seriously looking into the carnivore diet, I feel it will help me transition better. I’m kind of an all or nothing gal.

(Toni) #28

thank you. I’ve just made up my salt mix for the day, I think following as you say a fixed amount and throughout the day I will be able to keep better track, than just downing some every now and again when I feel like it.
I was using nusalt but then bought some pot citrate which is what gave me the more severe palpitations, so I’ll go back to the nusalt.
I’m seriously considering the carnivore diet, I figure if I start on it and continue to eat all the oxalate rich food that’s still in my fridge I will get about a 2 week transition. Not sure what to do with all the greens growing in my vegetable patch or the buckets full of mulberries on my mulberry tree!

#29

Feed them to chickens who will convert them to eggs.

(Edith) #30

The berries may be a good oxalate food to eat to keep any dumping symptoms from being too strong, if you have dumping symptoms.

(Titus) #31

I was having heart arythmia immediately after taking MCT oil, at about 2, 3 hours later. When I stopped the MCT the hear issues went away