“Healthy Carbs”

(Rina) #1

Usually when most people mention cheating they think of junk food like cakes and cookies. But when I cheat it’s usually fruits or sweet potatoes. Is that just as bad as junk food carbs? I only cheat once or twice a month. I don’t have any weight or blood sugar issues. But I do have some digestive issues. What do you think? Does it make me not keto anymore? Should I just never eat fruits and starches ever again and stick to berries and be 100% keto?

(Polly) #2

It depends on whether your occasional forays into fruit and sweet potato derail your medium term goals. Each of us is different and occasional cheats do not affect some people whereas others go into a spiral of carbage and don’t come out for weeks.

If you can manage these foods without detriment carry on. If you think they are stalling your fat loss or causing your digestive issues then leave them out.

(Jack Bennett) #3

As Polly says, it really depends on what your goals are. There’s some value in knowing how different foods affect your health, weight, feeling of well being, energy level, etc. There may be risk of slippage and triggering cravings for some people and not for others. It’s useful to understand your metabolic flexibility and what it feels like to be in or out of ketosis.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #4

The basic premise is wrong. There are no ‘good/healthy’ carbs ‘junk/bad/unhealthy’ carbs. Just carbs. They are all saccharides, which is the scientific name for sugar. The difference between them is how long they take to metabolize to glucose. The more a specific saccharide resembles glucose, including glucose itself, the faster it enters the blood as glucose. The more it resembles cellulose, the only totally indigestible saccharide, the longer it takes to convert to glucose (fructose also converts into a couple other metabolites). The difference is a couple of hours.

Carbs which most resemble glucose are generally called ‘bad’ and/or ‘junk’ simply because they end up in the blood as glucose within an hour of consumption, often within 15-30 minutes. They are often used as sweeteners and flavour ‘enhancers’ for foods that contain little nutrient value. Hence, the ‘junk’ appellation. They are also likely to cause a ‘spike’ in both blood glucose and insulin, depending how much you eat how fast.

People often conflate water soluble vitamins and minerals with ‘good/healthy’ carbs because these carbs also resemble glucose less and thus take a bit longer to metabolize. But the vitamins and minerals are dissolved in the water trapped within the cellulose structure. They are not part of or integral to the digestible carbs. And with few exceptions, the total amounts of these nutrients are too small to make eating the carb worthwhile. Better to get these nutrients in fats and proteins where they are generally contained in higher concentrations and blood glucose and insulin less affected.

So if you want to eat more than minimal, incidental carbs associated with nutritious fat/protein food, go ahead. But don’t fool yourself into thinking you get some nutritional benefit. If you stick with keto long enough you will eventually stop ‘cheating yourself’. :slightly_smiling_face:

(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #5

I’m thinking about eating a bunch of healthy carbs, but first I want to get over this awesome cold :slight_smile: lol

(Bob M) #6

I honestly don’t see the big deal, as long as you don’t jump ship to eating garbage.

I’ve also reached the conclusion that seed oils might be (likely are) worse than sugar. So, a donut is much worse than fruit/potatoes. I will eat regular potatoes every once in a while (not fried, though). For instance, we go to a steak place where you can’t substitute vegetables for the baked potato, so I eat maybe 1/2 the baked potato (loaded with butter and sour cream), and I’m still in ketosis the next day. I’d eat more of the potato, but I don’t think the potato tastes that good.

(Rina) #7

I haven’t ate processed foods, fast foods, and sugary drinks for over two years. So I know it’s possible to do the same with sweet potatoes and fruits. It’s just so hard because I thought they were healthy carbs for so long. It’s hard for me to see them as equal to junk food carbs. I have to rewire the way I see fruits and starchy vegetables.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #8

Agreed, they’re right up there, especially PUFAs with high ω6/ω3 ratios. Even I would admit that the potato is not as bad as the rancid canola oil it’s french fried in. :unamused:

(Bob M) #9

When I went to the first Keto Fest (2017), and Amber O’Hearn did a presentation about eating nothing but meat, I was flabbergasted. People eat nothing but meat? But vegetables are so healthy! I had been low carb for about 4 years already. So, I slowly tried it, eating more meat and fewer vegetables. I decided it wasn’t killing me and seemed to actually be helping.

I’m now 95+ percent meat. I still eat some vegetables, but not every day. Some days, none; other days, more.

And after almost 6 years low carb, I can look at fat and still do a mental freakout sometimes. It’s hard to undo 30 years of teaching.

It takes a while to untrain yourself.

#10

Some good answers here, especially about goals.

My take is that a wonderful goal of improved eating is to heal the body systems to be responsive and flexible, so that you can eat what you want and need appropriate for your age and wellness.

If you have digestive issues, it’s important to identify the cause. A way to do that is using an elimination diet.

Do the fruits or sweet potato create the digestive issue symptoms?

Fruits and vegetables are fine foods and a broad term. If you have the healthy metabolic flexibility to eat them, there really is no issue. It becomes a personal choice.

As for nutritional ketosis, that would be a matter of checking your blood ketones after eating the fruits and vegetables. It’s not people’s opinions that throw you out of ketosis, it’s physiology.

(Jack Bennett) #11

:ok_hand::grinning: I’m going to repeat this. It applies to so many things: show us the data, show us the science.

(Hyperbole- best thing in the universe!) #12

Another thing to consider is whether or not you need to be in ketosis constantly. Back to the goals thing. The answer won’t be the same for everyone. So if ketosis most of the time is fine and the sweet potato doesn’t cause cravings or any other negative affects then enjoy it.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #13

Bob

I’m about the same here. I had 8 berries on Thanksgiving and went out of ketosis and had some leg swelling. Seems I’m still pretty sensitive. Not sure why I would be. My oldest who has been keto for almost as long as I have and lost more weight can tolerate more carbs and stay fully in ketosis. But given she is so much younger I think that is the reason. My years of derangement is still something I am over coming.

(Bob M) #14

Eric, it might get better. After 6 years low carb/keto and tons of fasting and building muscle, I can eat some meals and desserts and stay in or return to ketosis. For instance, I ate a few high carb meals, including dessert, over Thanksgiving and was in ketosis (0.2 mmol/L) on Monday. That’s a relatively normal value for me.

I have lessened the number of these events, though. For example, I used to eat a lot of carbs over each holiday, and now I try to minimize it, eating 1-2 meals and a few desserts (some of which may be low carb). I usually try to hit a longer fast after these, too.

As for plants, I’m still trying to figure those out. Some bother me, some don’t. And I go through phases now, where I eat higher carb (say, fresh salsa with meals) some days and lower to near zero carb other days.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #15

Thanks Bob. I am a patient man. One day at a time.

(Bob M) #16

I wish I would have known more when I started low carb 6 years ago. I would’ve gotten an OGTT with insulin. This way, I could compare the one I got a year or so ago, to see what happened.

I know my markers of liver health and inflammation (only hs-CRP, it’s the only one I’ve taken) have gotten better. But even those, I did not take early enough. I asked for an HbA1c from my (former) doctor, and she wouldn’t order one, saying “We test too much”. I then started paying for these tests myself.

So, while I think I’ve improved my body’s handling of carbs, I can only say that as of my OGTT last year, I have normal glucose and insulin response. I can’t say it has improved, though my HbA1c, hsCRP, and liver markers have improved over time. Again, I did not know about those the first several years, though they have all improved since then.

I don’t think we can get back everything we had, as I’m still a bit “overweight”. But we can get back some to a lot of it.