Has an Anti-Aging sub-forum ever been suggested?


#1

Although I consider myself very much in that circle, it hit me the other day it also fits with a LOT of keto’rs. Aside from the obvious of loosing fat, getting healthy etc we strive to reverse diseases that “can’t” be reversed, look younger, prevent diseases typically associated with getting older, autophagy to get rid of old messed up cells, tighten and bring back youthful skin during/post weight loss etc. In a nutshell most of use are trying to turn back our biological clocks in one way or the other. May be a good fit!


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

I’ve never seen such a suggestion before, but we can take it under advisement. Do you have some thoughts on how this category would be differentiated from the other categories in the Health forum? Can you give us an idea of what kind of demand you are seeing for such a category? And have you been seeing threads that would benefit from being moved into such a category? These are the kinds of questions we ask when considering such a change, and your input would be very helpful.


(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #3

I support this suggestion. David Sinclair, Rhonda Patrick, Attia … are clearly on the low carbs side, and their work is related to longevity.


#4

I think the standout would simply be that a sub forum would be directly targeted at many of the benefits that many are going after and getting indirectly from keto aside from weight loss and health. The biggest one I think I see here is skin, which to me is a huge one. Many times it’s in the context of fear of loose skin after a ton of weight loss, but much of it is also how much younger someone looks as they progress, which will trigger other things to me. We’ve all seen the pics of people that literally pull 10+yrs off themselves, and then they’re motivated to keep going but to continue directly with something like getting rid of some more wrinkles, or how can I improve my crackly joints or get into a physical condition to allow me to work out again or run a 10k or something to that effect starts to veer off course a little from mainstream weight loss or disease management discussion. I think we’re all bio-hackers to a certain degree with most of us throwing out all mainstream “wisdom” to do what WE know is better for us. Like @Arbre said, Many of the heavy hitters in our space are very much about longevity, which goes hand in hand with anti-aging as does Keto itself. We’re all about the same end goal, slow the clock, be healthier, not succumb do disease and let’s be realistic, at SOME level, we’re all a LITTLE vain. Just a more targeted chat for those interested. Nobody ever says… What can I do to look older… LOL.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #6

I don’t recall the discussion, and it was on an admin forum that we stopped using, so I can’t revisit it, but obviously there was not much enthusiasm among the admin group at the time, since we didn’t create such a sub-forum.

The thing to remember is that the Ketogenic Forums have a specific purpose, and that is to be a reliable source of information about the ketogenic diet and how people manage it in their lives. We are not an all-purpose set of forums. Anti-aging and longevity topics seem to be beyond the scope of our mandate. Discussion of those topics sounds like a marvellous idea, but for some other site, not this one.

After all, what does a ketogenic diet do towards prolonging lifespan, other than what we already have topics for? I don’t see how other topics in longevity research relate to a ketogenic diet. I am willing to be convinced, but there are other moderators who need to be convinced, as well. We act on a consensus basis.


(Joey) #7

Perhaps it’s just semantics but… given the preference for growing older (vs death) it seems that “Pro-Aging” might be a better category to describe one’s desire for improved health.

But this is already the broad theme running through most categories now available on this forum, so perhaps a new one would be redundant?

Now that it’s been resurrected let’s see what our forum admins think of the idea.


(KM) #8

I would say I’ve seen quite a bit of evolution in terms of a social group here. In other words, we’ve become a group of people who trust each other and enjoy each other’s input. Is it truly necessary to limit our conversations to keto, or could these forums evolve, since we’ve already got a good level of social comfort with each other, rather than having to seek out a brave new world of potential A’holes to weed through.

Edit: I agree that some topics don’t belong here; religion, politics… But longevity feels neutral and science oriented.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #9

I’ll bring it up with @richard, but he’s been pretty adamant in the past about preserving and not diluting our fundamental mission. He feels strongly that there are too many sources of bad information about the ketogenic diet out there, and he wants us to concentrate on being a source of reliable information for people to be able to turn to.

I, too, feel that this is a great community to be a part of, but I also feel that we have a duty to respect Richard’s vision. But I’ll certainly bring the question up with the other admin staff, and see what Richard has to say, as well.


#10

I would like to chime in as well. I think it is an excellent idea and is very much a related cutting edge concept. It has also become very popular, this is an example of a facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/longevitytips. Also as others have said, people that Richard and Carl have interviewed or met such as Patrick, Attia etc are also part of this community. Outlive is very much about longevity obviously.

For about the last year since I have read David Sinclair’s Lifespan I have been more focused on anti aging than keto/Low Carb. There seems to be only so far I can get by eating keto in terms of weight loss (I feel great!). One of the ways I could get there is if I could turn back the clock to restore my thyroid and other aspects of my metabolism and supposedly one of the ways to to that is to downregulate mTOR through fasting and possibly keto (note not saying it is or will, speculating as a lay person)


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #11

Well, that is certainly a good point. We do go to great effort to let people know that keto is not primarily about losing fat, but about metabolic health in general. (I don’t know how much that sinks in, though.)

But how do those metabolic benefits relate, if at all, to longevity, and how does longevity research affect the way we eat a ketogenic diet? Those would be my questions.


#12

That answer would require a book (already written by Attia I think!) but the question points to the need for a sub forum! I am only part of the way through that book but briefly, as I understand what he and others are saying is that while certain people are blessed genetically and will reach 100 as they smoke, and consume twinkies, most people will shorten their lives with a SAD diet. Those of us not blessed with perfect genes may be able to manipulate mTOR with IF, Keto, possibly carnivore, possibly consuming a more plant based diet (lot of debate there! with more people thinking plants are the key to longevity but others contesting it! another reason for a forum, we do not want to live in an echo chamber).

Bottom line, I had a friend who died last year of diabetes. She was a TOFI and was under 65. Both her parents lived past 87! She had excellent insurance, lived near hospitals that people come to from all over the world, saw doctors regularly and died by inches, losing toes, legs and so on. She followed their advice which included eating a balanced SAD diet. I tried but ultimately there was nothing I could do. If you are not metabolically healthy or controlling T2, you cannot make it past 90, no matter your genes!


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #13

I’m beginning to see your point. After all, Bikman says that anyone worried about mTOR should be even more worried about insulin by far, and a ketogenic diet’s primary purpose is to lower insulin. That is certainly relevant, and probably worth promoting in a forum on longevity.

I’d personally prefer to not see such a forum loaded up with studies about planaria, which, while interesting, haven’t been shown yet to be really relevant to human longevity. It’s certainly true, however, that improving metabolic health almost of necessity must promote longevity. After all, we talk a lot about that in the rest of the forums.


(Todd Allen) #14

Thanks Paul! You are an easy one to please. We can easily satisfy our need to post minimally relevant studies by sticking to Caenorhabditis elegans.


#15

The experience I have had with myself and my (now gone) peers is that the closer you get to your actual expiry date, the less scary death becomes and the less desire to prolong longevity there is.

The desire for longevity seems to be the greatest among people in childbearing age, who are also the most afraid of death. And that makes sense.

Later comes the midlife panic. People become scared of aging. Aging is actually nice. Most people enjoy a much more balanced mind and mood. One stops worrying about things that don’t really matter. We spend most of our lives worrying about things we can’t even remember.

Quality of life is why I am here. I don’t care how much longer I live as long I am in good enough shape to take care of myself throughout that time. Aging also is really not for sissies. it comes with aches and pains and diet can help with many of these. But not all.

I very much doubt that anything suggested now about longevity has been tested enough or been through major trials. I would never take anything for longevity before all that testing. I shudder at the possibilities of outcomes.

I don’t care either way whether there will be a subforum for longevity. To everybody his.


#16

@SomeGuy Joey read my mind. Aging is good. We need to find a good way to age. People are not cheese nor wine. I watched a short video document on an Englishman who went to live as a ‘nature farmer’ in rural Japan. He laughed a lot. He met a life moment when he calculated how much it cost in dollars to live each second of his then current life. He now smiled and thought before speaking like a happy bodhisatva. Two key things he said were, “I seek a life of inconvenience (small problem solving challenges). I hope to earn nothing.” Gaining wisdom is a potential side effect of aging. Being able to share the knowledge and experience is good for humanity.


(Alec) #18

I’ve got an anti-aging idea… how about eating less than 20g of carbs a day?

:joy::joy::joy::crazy_face:


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #19

Is that those cute water bears? I love them!


#20

C Elegans is where it is at in longevity studies!


(Joey) #21

Intriguing! I just learned a bunch by reading the wiki covering this fascinating little bugger. :test_tube:


(Todd Allen) #22

No, C. elegans is a nematode. But like water bears they will keep for a very long time in a freezer.