Gym Vet, Keto Newb

#1

I was going to put this in the newb area since I am brand new to keto but I figured you guys would have better advice for me here. I have been curious about keto for a long time and I am finally going to try it out next week. I am not doing it to lose weight necessarily as I am doing just fine as is. It is more so for the health benefits I have heard about. I am concerned though because I love lifting weights and have been doing so my whole adult life.

A little background on me:
I started intermittent fasting 4 months ago to trim up and absolutely love it and plan to continue doing it on keto. I started at 209 from a dirty bulk (strong but definitely fat) and ended up at 179. I was able to maintain a good amount of my muscle mass and strength by keeping my protein intake around 140 grams/day. I am currently up to 183 thanks to a recent vacation. Body fat percentage is roughly 16%. I would like to be at 10% ideally before ending my weight cut.

I mocked up a meal plan to see what I was dealing with and ended up with 15.75g carbs (6%), 91g protein (34.5%), 157g fat (59.5%) which puts me at roughly 1900 calories which is the amount of calories I am currently consuming to continue my cut. All of the calculators I have seen online show this as being too protein heavy and light on the fat. From my understanding, too much protein will cause excessive insulin responses which obviously defeats the purpose of keto.

I come from the old school mentality of .8-1g protein per pound which I have always had success with. The ratio mentioned above puts me at slightly less than .50g per pound which is freaking me out.

How are my macros? Am I going to see major muscle loss at .50g / lb?

Any feedback is appreciated.

#2

If you’ve had success with it, I wouldn’t change it unless your not having success any longer. There’s no reason to drastically lower protein unless you are insulin resistant and are trying to fix your health issues in this regard. I don’t think going lower with protein will hurt you, but I wouldn’t strive so hard to meet certain macros.

Again, unless it’s not working. Then it’s time to change things up.

(Roy D Rushing Jr ) #3

A large number of the people here ignore everything but carbs and do just fine. I’d say you can just about do whatever you want within a 1900 calorie window and come out ok. Keep your carbs low and adjust your protein and fat to whatever ratio you feel is most beneficial to your goals. One thing to note is that keto is very sparing of muscle mass in general. You may not actually need as much protein to maintain muscle while cutting. After I got fat adapted my gym performance and apparent muscle growth improved dramatically. I’m attributing that to decreased cannibalisation of muscle tissue for energy because my body was able to fuel itself with fat so much more efficiently. The pre-fat adaption workouts were no fun though. That’s why people recommend taking a break from exercise while in the induction phase. Personally I don’t believe you have to do that. Just don’t be surprised by decreased performance for a week or so.

(Dan) #4

Hey man, I am new here and found this thread, I see there hasn’t been a reply since August; any desire to provide an update on your results?

I am like you, new to keto but been lifting for years. I did, however, start keto to burn fat bc I was being an idiot and eating terribly and needed this to hold myself accountable. I am also having trouble meeting the “desired” protein count, as I am used to doing up to 1.5/g per pound, and I am a 235 lb guy. I had no problem cutting it to about 170g per day, but technically that is still more than all the macro calculators say. between all the eggs and chicken I eat, plus a beef burger patty per day, it is tough for me to get any lower than that.

Wanted to see if you have had success without dropping your calories a ton.

(Ken) #5

I suggest checking out the Keto subforum on bodybuilding.com. Keto and training is a bit more structured and contains aspects that are not accepted on this board. Here, you’ll get lots of conflicting opinions. I was on that board for years when I was training heavy, its a better place for you.

(Karim Wassef) #6

Ketosis is one of the ways to reduce fat without compromising muscle, so in my experience it has been exceptional.

If you’re doing any kind of fasting, then you’re basically putting yourself in ketosis. Even cardio and HIIT, if it’s helping you lose weight, then it got you into ketosis.

The difference between these approaches is how long you stay in ketosis. With IF, you could be breaking it when you eat. With dietary ketosis, you can maintain it continuously… especially while sleeping. This is crucial since this is when the real heavy lifting in body recomposition happens. Dietary ketosis is also called something like the “fasting-simulating diet” because it hormonally shifts your body the way fasting does.

Ketones also trigger muscle sparing that allows you to retain strength while losing fat, as long as you use the muscle…

You will lose muscle “size” temporarily. And it’s not fat, the muscle will appear to shrink. This is because the energy stores in the muscles are in the form of glycogen and comes with a ton of water. Makes your muscles fill out, but it’s not really muscle. So going into keto will temporarily drain the glycogen and water and you’ll feel more empty… but there’s no real muscle loss.

The local glycogen depletion will also reduce your intensity with heavy weights… again, you’re not actually weaker but your local energy reserves will have dropped… bigger muscles like glutes and quads will suffer the most from this in my experience. But you can persist with lower weight, higher rep until failure and continue to grow.

That’s been my experience anyway…

(Karim Wassef) #7

Also, the interaction of glycogen, salt and water is pretty well understood in bodybuilding prep. It’s why mistiming a carb load can end up with a “flat” look and mistimed salt can make you look bloated…

While in keto/fasting and lifting, I found that it is critical to over-salt to maintain electrolytes. If you don’t do this, you will suffer. Sodium and Potassium are your strength friends. I carry a baggie of pink salt and a big boy of water… I eat the salt (one big pinch at a time) and down it with water. You can’t mix them before - too harsh for me.

That’ll keep you hydrated enough to push your lifting. Worked for me anyway