Greenhorn here - should I do a Keto diet?

#1

Hello everyone!

I am thinking of if I should start with a Keto Diet or not. My TDEE is around 2800 kcal. Source here: https://tdeecalculator.net/result.php?s=metric&g=male&age=18&kg=78&cm=179&act=1.55&f=1

But I think that is could be even higher, since I go to the gym at least 3-5 times a week (avg. between 3-4) and then I do intense cardio sessions at the end where I burn +150kcal, and I cycle 5km to and then 5km back to the gym, totalling 10km per day.

I diet down to a deficit of 800-1000 calories currently, with a huge amount of that being proteine (over 140g on non working days and over 170g on workout days). I eat less carbs, trying to stay always below 150.

Yesterday I found this ketogenic diet. It seems like for me though it is worth only for people which are obese.

I weigh 78kg right now and I want to go down to 73kg (maybe even lower) so I can start my first really-clean bulking session in bodybuilding with a low TDEE surplus of just 300 kcal.

My final questions:

  1. Is it worth doing a Keto diet for me - or should I just continue with my current low-carb one?
  2. Should I start a Keto diet right now or after I come back from my trips? I am going to Italy for one week and then to Turkey for 10 another days after 2 weeks. So, is it even worth adjusting my body to the ketogenic way for just 2 weeks? I am not going to track calories during my trips.

Looking forward for you responds!

LoyalKnight

PS: Minimizing loss of muscle mass is really important for me.

#2

Why not just try intermittent fasting instead? Keep eating the same amount of food you always do but eat it in an 8 or 6-hour window? Then eventually move to 3-day fasts.

#3

I never heared of that. What speaks against Keto in my case, then?

#4

Nothing speaks against keto in your case. IMO anyone could benefit from keto. It sounds like your goal is weight loss, and it sounds like you’re already in good health. Intermittent fasting is great for weight loss and improved health. Keto is great for improved health; most folks lose weight with keto, but a few don’t. If you want to pull out all the stops and you are in it for the long haul, do both together. Intermittent fasting and keto together is the best way to go. With keto you will probably experience the keto flu for a short period of time which may affect your exercise but once you push through it you will experience lots of energy and improved performance. Check out @Brenda on this forum for example.

#5

The keto diet for body building is a different beast than for those wanting to gain back control of their bodies. Remember, you will be trying to change the fuel your body is using. Ketones do contain more energy than glucose but it will be a while before your body is efficient enough to make the most of it. Although, you’re 18, so it might be faster than most. I say try it out, just note though that it might take up to two months to become fat adapted, the holy grail of keto. Also, it’s recommended to not work out until you’re at that stage because you’ll just be making it harder for yourself.

If you want to do this then first I would say get some labs done to gain a base line of where you are, (metabolically speaking); Hba1c, fasting insulin, and cholesterol at least. Then follow these three guidelines;1) eat 20g or less of carbs daily, 2) eat only moderate amounts of protein daily. Try a keto calculator to figure out a good starting point in grams. 25% of total calories.,3)fat to satiety.

Remember these are just starting points. It may end up completely different for you since you’re focusing on body building.

Do it after the trips. You’re going to hit carb withdraw after the third day and it’s not fun. Also, you’ll have to increase salt intake once you hit carb withdraw to help manage the cravings.

#6

Thank both for the responds! Well, I would consider my health to be really good.

I am doing weightlifting for more than one year, but I trained “wrong” for a long period. Now I want to lose the fat that annoys me and then start a slow, clean “bulking” up through a slight caloric surplus.

I would say that I have good control of my body. But during my current diet (which lasts for around 1 month now) I lost around 4kg.

Maybe you can help me here with a different topic: Sometimes I got heavy cravings when I felt quite low (2-3 times until now) and then I just ate crap food (which I normally NEVER do) and felt even worse afterwards. Then my intake skyrocketed to over 3000kcal. To avoid this, I am eating a lots of protein, and it works great until now, no heavy cravings for around one week.

If it may last up to two months I should better not try it out. If I keep my diet I should be at below 10% BF in around 2-3 months, and I intend to hit up the gym still 3-5 times a week to avoid muscle loss. My current BF Level is somewhere between 14-17%.

Getting some lab data sounds quite hard as well.

The best thing for me is then to continue my current, low-carb diet I suppose. I mainly aim for 1500-2000 kcal and at least 140g of protein per day to ensure that I am not losing muscles.

(Damon Chance) #7

The r/ketogains subreddit is a good place for info on building muscle while on Keto. By all accounts it’s a slower process more akin to body recomposition where you lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. Bulking/cutting cycles aren’t necessarily needed.

(Mike Glasbrener) #8

Keto has obvious and immediate benefits for those whose health has been adversely affected by years of poor dietary decisions whether they exercised or not (many not). Full blown keto life style can be harder for younger people IMO. Keeping carbs below 20gr per day requires reading all labels, understanding what affects you through n=1 experimentation, full control over your dietary choices and the discipline to commit and follow through in the presence of peer pressure to conform. All that said, there’s no reason you couldn’t try it. However, I expect that if you got rid of ALL crap carbs in your diet you’d be way better off. It would be kind of a low discipline almost keto lifestyle. Get rid of all sugar and simple low nutrient carbs. No sugar of any kind. No bread, rice, starchy veggies etc. Try to manage protein to a moderate level and don’t fear fat. It sounds like you do not have metabolic syndrome nor T2D so you are much more metabolically adaptable and just managing crap carbs should work well for you… Just my 2 cents…

#9

Thank you. I will do that then, no crappy carbs in my diet, whatsoever. Keto seems to complex for me.

Should I not even drink e.g. Milk or Buttermilk which also contains sugar? I am doing this regularly in my diet, milk with protein powder just tastes awesome :smiley:

But yeah, I sometimes still eat crap carbs in my diet, even if I stay below 2000kcal. I should completely get rid of them.

(Mike Glasbrener) #10

Again, it sounds like you’re more metabolically adaptable than most here. It all depends on you. I’d say there’s no hard rule book. Also, do n=1 (self) experimentation. Protein powder and milk have way too many carbs for me. I would cut what you can and see if your results improve over time. If you want further improvement cut more carbs. Hard core people would all say less than 20grams. However, pretty much any cut is a win. If you don’t get results and keep cutting you’ll be keto. But you may not need to cut so far with your metabolism and age…

(Jo O) #11

Search for Dr.Dominic D’Agostino (ex: Tim Ferriss podcast).
Dominic is a researcher using the Keto diet for various diseases & DARPA. Plus he bench presses something ridiculous.

Listen to podcasters:
Mark Sisson
Ben Greenfield

These are all fitness/Keto people

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #12

Two more guys who deal with the science of it all are Dr. Stephen Phinney and Dr. Jeff Volek, researchers who have been studying ketosis in athletes for decades. Dr. Volek lifts weights and Dr. Phinney is a skier. Dr. Phinney claims credit for inventing the term “nutritional ketosis” decades ago, so he knows whereof he speaks. Another researcher to check out is Dr. Timothy Noakes, whose book, The Lore of Running, is famous among marathoners and ultra-marathoners. He is very good for the background science, though admittedly perhaps not so good for practical weight-lifitng tips.

(Linda Culbreth) #13

When you decide to go keto, up your water and salt intake. That will help with the “keto flu.”

(Keto in Katy) #14

Don’t over-think it. Keep carbs under 20g per day, moderate protein, fat to satiety.

It may taste awesome but see the point above: no more than 20g carbs per day. Regardless of how good it tastes.

Forget calories. Follow a simple ketogenic plan, get your carbs, protein, and fat mix right and you will naturally eat fewer calories, but the calories are not the focus.

(Nanci O'Connell) #15

My son is in great shape at 22 years old and rock climbs about 4 times a week. He did keto for about a week and said he was getting really cut. He wasn’t tracking calories, ate porky rinds for snack and literally sipped MCT oil for energy (he said it was like an energy drink). He wants to do it again but stopped after a week because he had just quite smoking and the carb cravings were actuallly making him crave cigarettes. He plans to do keto again in a few months

#16

Curious when you say you were working out wrong? What does that even mean

#17

Haha, I had no idea about proper Bodybuilding, mainly it was my nutrition. I simply did not care about it, but nutrition is the most important part of bodybuilding! For nearly 1 year I was nearly never in a caloric surplus, so the ganis were quite little. After Cutting down to 10% (or less bf…) the gainz will come! I am really looking forward to it, even if it means another 2-3 months of dieting. I hope to achieve 10% BF my the end of december!

(Jacob Wagner) #18

More power to you. For me, I hope I never get that low.

–Jacob

#19

Thank you! And why not? :grinning: