Going back to basics - is it the right call?

(Marianne) #41

This is helpful. I’ve been thinking about making that adjustment. Since carnivore/zc, I’ve kind of treated that as a license to eat as much meat and fat as I wanted - and I have a large capacity to eat as evidenced by my pre-keto/binge days. I think I could also benefit from eating 3x/day vs. a “snack” and dinner.

(Chuck) #42

I log what I eat as reference, but I don’t weigh and measure everything I just guesstimate, I must be close because it is working for me. I have done this since the summer of 2011, but only started keto/low carb the first of this last September. My 50 carbs total is also a guesstimate and also seems to be working. For me the key is no grains, except a little bit of rice at times.I also mostly stay away from potatoes but have had a few bites of bakes potato at times. I don’t think of this as a diet, it is a lifestyle that I am coming back to from my childhood.

#43

Today I certainly ate more protein than usual, and I feel absolutely fine with that. I had my two chicken legs earlier in the day, and later my one and a half tub’s worth of cream (whipped of course), and I enjoyed immensely later in the evening my four pork chops. I usually eat two, but just felt like four this evening (I didn’t eat them all in one go). Tomorrow I will grill all my Aberdeen Angus burgers, and steam just a few small broccoli florets and green beans to go with them. Life is good when there’s lots of meat in the house.

(Linda ) #44

Yeah all this macro changing completely messed me up…
I lost all my weight on keto got down to a goal weight and then I bought into eat all the meat you want…and immediately started gaining and kept gaining…
Then i was told pmsf eat more meat cos your going to be hungry and boy was I hungry…

After gaining gaining even more eight and my blood sugars back into pre diabetic range numbers …ketone numbers in the toilet 0.1… none of my clothes fitting something had to give or I’d have quit…

So I went back to basics of a ketogenic diet…high fat mod protein but 0 carbs stayed carnivore the whole time… Ive cut protein portions I only eat 4 oz per meal. Once I got back into a state of ketosis (which was another thing I bought into was low ketones after couple years is normal…)
Everything changed for me …My blood sugars every morning are now under100 where was they were up in the 115 range prior… my ketones range between 2 and 5 all day…
And im down 18lbs in almost 3 months.
I used high fat to kill hunger and once my appitite dropped I now let my body guide me on fat some days more fat some alot less…

(Megan) #45

Hi Marianne, I’m a bit confused about this comment b/c it doesn’t line up with the 78/90/15 from your 1st posting. By the way, where are the 15 grams of carbs coming from?

I used to binge eat a lot and have been concerned at times how much I’ve eaten some days on carnivore. Now I’m 9 months in it has settled down and I’m generally eating less than I was, some days quite a bit less. I’m glad I “fed myself well during the early adaptation days and trusted the process”. That sounds wanky and even I roll my eyes, but I think there is some truth in that advice. I’ve lost 19kg (42 pounds) so far over the past 9 months. Weight loss has slowed but it’s definitely still happening. I have no idea when my body will stop losing weight, and for how long. I still have another 10 or so kg to go before I’m happy to stop losing. I’m 6’ 2" (188 cm) tall so an extra 10kg looks quite different on me than on someone a lot shorter.

Awesome you’re 4 years in, that’s a real achievement!

(Michael) #46

one pound (454 grams) of ribeye steak contains about 80g of protein and 100g of fat if it is a fatty cut. 600g of protein would equate to 7.5 pounds of ribeye steak. I think you are confusing protein with meat here. I have eaten 400g of protein with 400 g of fat in a day. And yes, that is too much protein in a day for someone who weighs 60 kg since it equates to 5 g /kg bodyweight.

(Doug) #47

This does happen. Meats average out about 25% protein, I think.

#48

Hi Linda, your experience makes sense to me, as the amino acids in protein can be converted to glucose. It is also quite possible (but this is more of a theory of mine) that if your carb allowance is 0, the body is more desirous to make glucose, and it may take even less protein to be kicked out of ketosis. Anyway good for you that you listened to your body, and decided to go back to basics, and found a way that works.

I am usually lower on the protein, much higher on the fat, and since adding back just a few vegetables (in small quantities) I have lost the 2kg I gained on carnivore. I find though, as I always listen to my body, that on some days I end up eating mostly fat, on some days a good bit more protein like yesterday, and I don’t think it’s a problem to keep your body guessing a bit what you will do, Dr. Jason Fung tends to say, switch it up.

As to the vegetables, I have reinstated broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage and green beans. Also some fruit (avocado, berries) and, nuts (almonds and walnuts), and this has worked for me. I am keeping these carbs to only small amounts, and as I mentioned, not everyday. Say 10 almonds in the morning and later a few steamed broccoli or cauliflower florets on one day. A handful of raspberries in the morning and half of an avocado on another day.

I don’t believe the carbs (from whole foods) are really the issue, but I’ve never suffered from carb addiction, I feel very lucky in that. And my body has definitely changed on keto. I ate a strawberry the other day, and one was more than enough, and far too sweet at that.

#49

yes this can happen for some. it is who you are when you come into carnivore. the eat all you need to heal/repair and change is more for ‘new people’ who aren’t maybe already physically more ‘corrected’ then someone who has come in from a Keto Plan and already on the health path. then as we progress we don’t eat all we want, we only eat what we need :slight_smile: our appetites change as we heal balancing us out.

I ate and ate and ate. I gained like 8-10 lbs but then I dropped the lbs fast and lost more and more. For me I had to be one to eat super freely. What my body needed. You came in with your body needing more control being more healthy probably. Also when one comes in more controlled one can gain, but also one stabilizes down the road but also one can ‘need their’ own personal changes like you sought out and made it work best for you.

I am super happy you found what works for you. Doing great Azi.
No eating lifestyle and its common recommendations fits all for sure :slight_smile:

(Eve) #50

I am new to the keto diet, only 2 months in, and reading through all the threads and different experiences has been incredibly informative. I have got a bit lost however as what is the ideal formula to follow - based on all the different comments there does not seem to be “one way”. Since I have just started is the best thing to just stick with the fundamental of high fat, medium protein and very low carb? 70/25/5 …ish

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #51

Beef certainly, and pork is similar. Boneless chicken is slightly higher in protein, and fish is slightly lower.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #52

Some of them are glucogenic and get converted into glucose, whereas others are lipoogenic and get converted into fats. A few can be converted into either.

This is quite true, but the amount of glucose the body actually requires to be circulating in the entire blood stream amounts to 5 or 6 g, which is one U.S. teaspoonful. The process of gluconeogenesis is quite well-regulated, and the body doesn’t just turn all excess amino acids into glucose, willy-nilly. (First of all, it can’t, because just as many amino acids are lipogenic as are glucogenic.)

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #53

The most important thing, both for metabolic health and for fat loss, is to lower insulin, and the way to do that is to stop eating huge quantities of glucose (also known as carbohydrate). But the carb limit is not a percentage of calories, it’s a specific amount. Likewise, protein is also not a percentage of calories, but an amount pegged to your lean mass. And fat is added to satisfy our hunger, so again, not a percentage. If you are still of a mind to fear fat, remember that it takes less than half the amount of fat by weight to provide the same amount of calories as a given weight of carbohydrate. So, for example, you can get 1200 calories from either 133.3 g of fat or from 300 g of carbohydrate.

(Eve) #54

Thankyou again Paul, you must be fed up of me by now !!!

(Eve) #55

By “lean mass” do you just mean the weight on the scales or is there a subtraction for %body fat?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #56

Estimating body composition is very tricky. There is no really easy way to do that. The most accurate method is to measure body fat with calipers, and the technician has to be well-trained and highly competent, in order to stand a chance of getting it right. Electronic scales that measure body composition by means of electrical impedance are notoriously inaccurate. A DEXA scan can be more accurate than that, but it is easily affected by how well- or poorly-hydrated one is at that given moment.

The easiest method is to guess one’s fat percentage, which is, of course, wildly inaccurate. But I assume, for my own use, that I am only 70% lean mass and calculate my protein from there. Though normally, I just eat and don’t worry about it, so long as I am keeping my carbs under the limit.

(Eve) #57

Thanks. I will do the same :blush:

(Marianne) #58

Wow, your post really rang true for me. I’m back to low carb keto, too, and enjoying every second. Like you, I have cut my protein portions waaay back and eat probably 5-6 oz. only for dinner with a veggie. Besides that, I usually have eggs for breakfast with maybe a slice or two of bacon, and maybe a few ham slices (with cream cheese) for lunch. I’m really relishing the vegetables - so far limited to steamed green beans and brussels sprouts. What a fresh treat after so long. I will make some homemade blue cheese dressing and start having romaine salads occasionally, too.

That is so awesome! So happy for you!!! I’m in no rush but am far more hopeful with these new modifications. I hope in several months, I’ll drop a few pounds and get back down to the lowest weight that I’ve been on keto. Thanks for sharing.

(Marianne) #59

I’m sorry; I can see how this was confusing. The meal that I posted when I started the thread was based on when I have a “pork loin” steak for dinner. These are usually between 6-8 oz. They are so dense, however, that they are difficult to eat much beyond that portion size - for me. Because of this, they probably brought my calories down for that particular day. Most of our meals had consisted of cheeseburgers (73/27% - probably a 14-16 oz. burger), beef, roasts, pork steaks (much fattier than pork loin), chicken wings, etc. With those choices, I was easily eating up to 20 oz. no problem. The fat and calories had to be pretty significant. No wonder I wasn’t losing and had actually gained a few pounds over a two-year period.

The 15 carbs and macros I listed came from a macro calculator I researched just the other day, not what I had been eating. Prior to changing up to low carb keto a few days ago, I had been basically zc/carnivore for two years. I don’t think it’s working for me anymore because I was way overdoing it on the meat and fat.

Congratulations on your progress and finding a groove that works for you!

(Marianne) #60

Exactly!

This is what I have just started and it feels great. I feel really encouraged and positive about it. So wonderful to hear other people’s experiences with the same issue.