Going back to basics - is it the right call?

(Marianne) #1

Despite being on clean keto/zc for four years with virtually no cheating during that time, two respectively, I am stuck at 174, which is 25-30 lbs. from where I’d like to be. I think I look fine where I am, but I certainly could - and would like to - lose a lot more.

I haven’t had a drink in two weeks (which is significant for me), but I don’t seem to be losing weight. I am confounded as to why. I didn’t expect the weight to melt off, but I did think it would begin to move south again slowly. Not sure what else to do except go back to the basics that I started with. I only charted macros for several weeks in the beginning, but now I think I may need to return to that to get a sense of what is going on. Although I usually only eat a “snack” during the day (usually three eggs in ghee, maybe with a piece or two of bacon) and a piece of meat for dinner, I still feel the same. (I do put bacon grease or butter on leaner cuts of meat.) This morning I drank my coffee black. I was putting a couple teaspoons of HWC in each cup (3 cups/day). I don’t believe I am reproportioning, either. Lastly, I am pretty much sedentary.

This morning I looked up my macros (P/F/C) - 78/90/15. I suppose based on these, I am probably consuming more fat than I should, maybe I could adjust the protein, too, although I don’t really have a clue about either without tracking.

Being that I am zc, do you think that sticking to the above macros again will work? I’m not looking for anything to happen overnight, but I really am bummed that I am staying at this weight while seemingly eating clean and not overeating.

Any thoughts/opinions are appreciated.

(Chuck) #2

My first thought is do you really need to lose more weight? My second thought is are you eating in a calorie deficit? My third thought is what are your body measurements compared to what they should be? You don’t need to answer those questions in public just questions you should answer for yourself.
I will never conform to some stupid BMI chart requirement for what I weigh and haven’t since I finished Navy boot camp way back in 1969. But my measurements are now just about the same and that is good enough for me. My blood pressure is back to normal now, and my lab work is as good as someone half my age. So why should I care about a stupid set of scales and some stupid accountants math for insurance forms.


I think another possibility is that, possibly, the body after a while begins to downregulate metabolism. Jason Fung tends to say: switch it up, and I think for good reason. When I went carnivore I noticed my clothes were getting tighter and I was gaining, about 2 kg which I could have easily written off as normal fluctuation except I also noticed that slight change in my clothes. I was also experiencing stomach pains from constipation and decreased energy. So I went back to basics, back to my original keto WOE. Doing that lost me the 2 kg I gained on carnivore. So I’m down from 54kg to 52kg (I am 5.2). The thing is, unfortunately, one WOE does not fit all. Likewise one solution to whatever problems arise, does not fit all. But for me, adding back just a few carbs, got me rid of the constipation, and made me lose those 2kg I had gained. Now my clothes are slightly looser. I don’t believe it was fat I gained, but possibly water. I am releasing more water now that I’m back on keto. And it does make me wonder if Dr. Paul Saladino was on to something, when he claimed carnivore is not actually a ketogenic WOE, as the rather large amounts of protein people are encouraged to eat might kick one out of ketosis. The other thing is, if you’re eating the same day in, day out, with also hardly any variance in amount, it is possible the body then down regulates metabolism, down regulates thyroid hormones, as it is very, very good at adapting.


It’s hard, more like impossible to say what would work for someone… You eat quite little (especially compared to me even when I actually lose fat slowly) so that shouldn’t be the problem unless your energy need is unusually small or something mysterious is happening…

I just can say what I would do in your case (the same as in mine). I would track to see if I eat too much (not like too little isn’t a problem, it just can’t happen to me) and I would exercise - but I suppose it’s different for me as I want as much muscles as possible for me and that motivates me (of course health and in my case, energy is there among the reasons as well). Just exercise for fat-loss never could motivate me, I am not vain and I am healthy so it’s not that easy… It just need to happen easily enough somehow.

For me, timing is important but my fat-loss is all about my calories and your case seem to be different…

For now, tracking seems a good idea to collect data…? Maybe you can try different things, IDK what, zc has less wriggle room and potential problem items… But still some. IDK what you eat exactly or if that may matter…

(Marianne) #5

“Need,” probably no. Want, yes. I do have extra padding all over, especially in my belly area. I am not “fat” however. That’s why I’m not expecting this extra weight to come off immediately, but I still would like it to. I’ll take anything.

Thanks for your response.

(Marianne) #6

That’s what I’m afraid of.

(Chuck) #7

I have been keto/low carb since September and have lost 32 pounds, I now weigh 208 which is a weight that I weighed my 8 years in the Navy. I am now 75 my waist is just about the same as then, and my energy level is great. But the charts say I shouldn’t weigh over 184. If I could even manage to lose that much I would look like I had been starved and that is what it would take for me to lose that much more weight. As long as my health, lab work and blood pressure is good I couldn’t care less what my weight is. I am finally realizing that it is body measurements not weight that is important.
As for as varied food, I haven’t had an issue with varying my food. I love all kinds of meat, and vegetables, and even dairy, the key is in the way i combine them each day to keep my total carbs and calories within my limits. My only hard rule is no wheat of any kind an a minimum amount of rice and potatoes.
My experience is that wheat and pure sugar is my trigger. I also have limited fruits, but I still enjoy fresh fruits. And no fruit juice except the occasional prune juice to help me with regularity.

(Allie) #8

That’s not even 1200 calories, no wonder your body is holding on to its stores…

(Robin) #9

@gingersmommy. Bingo. I think Allie hit on it.
My first inclination is you are eating too little… without even knowing what your macros are.

Every so often I will have a day when I am ravenous and eat several large meals. Invariably, my weight drops. It’s way too easy to under-eat when carni or keto.

I know we don’t discuss calories much on here. But sometimes the answer lies there, especially a deficit.
I would try not changing anything but the amount of food. Eat more.
Isn’t it crazy, Marrianne that we grew up being taught to diminish ourselves (size) by starving ourselves? (I was chasing Twiggy.)

(Marianne) #10

Ugh; I never even considered that - thank you. I’ve been eating this way for so long, and I’m not hungry. When I feel hungry, I eat. If we have steak (my favorite), I can eat 16 oz. no problem, and I eat all of the fat. We usually eat leaner cuts of pork (pork loin steaks). Those are so dense that I can only eat one, and I add a couple Tbs. of melted butter to it. I can eat a whole pork steak when we have them, although I some of the fat on those skeeves me, although I do eat the fat that I like.

I’m going to sound like a newbie, but I am so terrified of gaining more weight that I’m afraid to eat like three meals a day again. :pleading_face::roll_eyes::pensive:

(Marianne) #11

Anyone who grew up in the 60s/70s aspired to that body type. When I was in school, very few girls (or boys) were “fat.” For me, it was unattainable, even if I were at my goal weight (although I’d take it!).

(Allie) #12

So reverse diet, do it properly - 100 cals at a time, let your body adjust, add another 100 cals, increase again, and continue onward :slight_smile:

(Robin) #13

What Allie said.

(Joey) #14

You’ve gotten thoughtful insights above from others as to what may be going on… Are your expectations realistic? Are you under-eating? Has your metabolism shifted downward?..

You’ve said that you’re sedentary. I strongly suggest you make a concerted effort to become more physically active in a regular way - ideally cardio plus some light strength exercise.

To be clear, exercise is not a very effective method to achieve weight loss. But it will likely serve to boost your metabolism - while inducing a healthier sense of hunger and appetite (which you should follow!). Plus it will likely build muscle and improve heart health, all of which is a major plus.


(ps. - Eating healthy food is half the key to good health. The other half is having your body actually do something with it. :wink: )


Hi Marianne, it is also possible if you’re feeling stressed or just have been getting less sleep that that might be affecting your progress, because stress can spike your blood sugar, raise your cholesterol levels, and also affect your thyroid. Hormones can mess with you a lot, and a myriad things can affect hormones. If inflammation levels are high in your body, that can also scupper your progress. There are just so many variables. I can certainly understand you’re frustrated, as would I be. Perhaps it would be helpful to keep a journal with how much sleep you’re getting, how much exercise, how much food, protein/fat ratio (I tend to eat much more fat than protein) and which foods your body agrees well with, as some might cause inflammation.


Do you have things in slices there? I see these often and I am always confused as it says NOTHING about the amount to me… There are small meat pieces and big meat pieces… Even if I go to a steakhouse, there is small and big steak :smiley:

Maybe track for some more days to see what happens when you eat leaner or fattier meat… It was informative for me, even for years of tracking when I started to eat leaner pork. And it’s nice and juicy! So I totally could base my day on it (and eggs, of course). And my macros got crazy. That’s when I go over 200g protein and I don’t like that. Of course, my fat goes up too eventually as my body refuses to get satiated without high-fat but that’s me. For someone who doesn’t get hungry in that situation, undereating may happen and we don’t want that. One day here and there is fine, of course but it’s not good longer term.
Now, whenever I make something lean, I make sure I eat enough fatty items too. But in my case my generous amount of eggs balance out things to some extent anyway. It’s just not enough for me. So I have lean pork and fatty sausage. Or use the chance and eat as much cream or sour cream as I feel like as it won’t mess up my macros, in the contrary :wink:

Why? You expect to eat too much that way? Maybe you would eat properly then. I actually tend to eat more if I have more meals but in my good carnivore times my body stops giving me hunger signs if I get a decent amount of food (fat and protein, both must be high enough) for the day, no matter if it’s 1 or 5 meals.

(Bob M) #17

I know you’re not eating a lot of calories, but what I found was that I had to stop adding fats like butter to my meals, from both a satiety and calorie standpoint. I also don’t eat mayo (except sometimes) for that reason. Maybe 1 and a half pork loins? (I also had to stop fat bombs and add less fat in general, particularly butter.)

Like you, I’m not fond of some fats, particularly pork fat. I did score some Mangalitsa pork, though, and that fat was great. Brad Marshall’s pork also has great fat, though his pork is expensive (as was the Mangalitsa). It’s just that most pork is corn-fed, which leads to nasty fat, in my opinion.

If you can find animal fat you like, I think that’s an option. The danger with butter is that if you melt it, you can easily add multiple tablespoons of it. But it’s hard to physically eat the same amount of calories in animal fat. (And I am not a calorie counter, and never have been.) Compare trying to eat 4 tablespoons of cold butter, with melting it and putting it on a steak or whatever: I think the former would be difficult for me; the latter probably would not (though some would likely be left on the plate).

(Marianne) #18

Maybe slightly unrealistic, but I really don’t think so. I’d be ecstatic with twenty lbs., which is very realistic.

After reading everyone’s posts and thinking about it, I guess I am undereating. My metabolism probably has slowed to compensate.

(Marianne) #19

I’m retired and everything’s good right now, so I don’t think it’s stress. Except for having to get up 4-5x/night, I sleep pretty well.

(Joey) #20

Hmmm… getting up 4-5x nightly is not what I’d describe as sleeping well. :thinking: Anyhow, if you’re trying to step up your metabolism and plan on eating more, it’d be wise to wind up the metabolic clock (yeah, I’m back on the exercise thing. Sorry).