"Glucose supplied on demand" and cancer cells

#1

In a number of podcasts, I hear it said that the keto diet turns our bodies to get most of their energy from fat; and that the liver produces any glucose more or less on demand. Hence stopping excessive stimulus of insulin, etc etc.

In the pods on keto and cancer, I hear that cancer cells have “respiratory” problems and so need glucose or glutamine to ferment as a source of energy. Hence a glucose poor diet will starve the cancer cells (of course something needs to block the glutamine) and kill them.

My question then is; what is/are the signaling mechanisms by which cells in the body stimulate the liver to produce glucose, and why can’t the cancer cells (apparently) make use of this mechanisms to get their glucose?

(Stacy Blanchard) #2

This is a great question for Dr. Benjamin Bikman at insulin IQ or listen to the 2KD podcast April 15 with Thomas Seyfried.

(Bunny) #3

A few snips:

  1. “…The pancreas releases glucagon when the concentration of insulin (and indirectly glucose) in the bloodstream falls too low. Glucagon causes the liver to convert stored glycogen into glucose, which is released into the bloodstream. …” …More
  1. ”… Production. Ketone bodies are produced mainly in the mitochondria of liver cells, and synthesis can occur in response to an unavailability of blood glucose, such as during fasting. …” …More
  1. The Paradox of Cancer’s Warburg Effect - Dr. Jason Fung M.D. “… The Warburg Effect refers to the fact that cancer cells, somewhat counter intuitively, prefers fermentation as a source of energy rather than the more efficient mitochondrial pathway of oxidative phosphorylation (OxPhos). We discussed this in our previous post. …” …More

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  1. Glycogen controls Caenorhabditis elegans lifespan and resistance to oxidative stress
    “…Moreover, glycogen interferes with low insulin signaling and accelerates aging of long-lived daf-2 worms fed a high glucose diet. Considering its extensive evolutionary conservation, our results suggest that glycogen metabolism might also have a role in mammalian aging. …” “…Glucose released from glycogen and used for NADPH/glutathione reduction renders nematodes and human hepatocytes more resistant against oxidative stress. …”
  1. How sugar feeds cancer growth

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  1. “…Dr. Budwig points out that in growing new cells, there is a polarity between the electrically positive nucleus and the electrically negative cell membrane with its high unsaturated fatty acids. During cell division, the cell, and new daughter cell must contain enough electron-rich fatty acids in the cell’s surface area to divide off completely from the old cell. When this process is interrupted the body begins to die. In essence, these commercially processed fats and oils are shutting down the electrical field of the cells allowing chronic and terminal diseases to take hold of our bodies. A very good example would be tumors. Dr. Budwig noted that “The formation of tumors usually happens as follows. In those body areas which normally host many growth processes, such as in the skin and membranes, the glandular organs, for example, the liver and pancreas or the glands in the stomach and intestinal tract—it is here that the growth processes are brought to a stand still. Because the polarity is missing, due to the lack of electron rich highly unsaturated fat, the course of growth is disturbed—the surface-active fats are not present; the substance becomes inactive before the maturing and shedding process of the cells ever takes place, which results in the formation of tumors.” …” …More (Note: she is talking about the nutrients in the oils of freshly ground organic flax seeds and organic unprocessed sulfur (MSM) white powder in the bag, not the pills, she reversed or “cured” cancer in many people in her time…)
  1. Is there a way to exploit the metabolic quirk of cancer? - Dr. Peter Attia
  1. Understanding the Warburg Effect: The Metabolic Requirements of Cell Proliferation
#4

Apparently, cancer cells are really dumb.

(CharleyD) #5

I wouldn’t say they’re dumb, but they’ve been pushed into a corner metabolically speaking and instead of dying, (I’m a fan of the theory) they flipped into an older (primordial) operating system to try to survive.

Yep, there are many weaknesses to the primordial OS, but given that if provided sugar they’re functionally immortal, seems like a decent tradeoff if survival is the goal.

They’re primed to die however, just need a push.

https://www.nature.com/news/physicists-model-proposes-evolutionary-role-for-cancer-1.16068

#6

Thanks everyone for answering. I can’t say I read every detail of every reference, so I may have missed it… but I still don’t get how production of glucose by the liver is triggered. To say that the concentration of glucose in the sugar falls below a certain level (as I understood it) is the trigger, doesn’t really answer the question. How does the body (or the relevant agent in the body) measure the concentration?

But in looking over the references above on metabolic approach to curing/managing cancer I find some glaring differences between Dr Budwig’s dietary protocal and Dr. Seyfried’s.

Dr Budwig’s diet stresses the importance of the right electro-chemical situation, and presents a combination of flaxseed oil and cottage cheese as the core. The webpage referenced also states

"The following items listed below should be avoided on this diet.

(The reason one needs to exclude these items from his / her diet is that they interfere with the diet by lowering the voltage field in the cells.)

Sugar
All animal fats
All meats
Margarine
Butter
Salad dressing oils- exception extra virgin olive oil and balsamic vinegar or lemon
Foods high in Preservatives

"
Dr. Seyfried’s approach generally includes a Ketogenic diet, which includes avoiding some of this list (e.g. sugar and margarine, processed foods), but apparently encourages animal fats and butter. I understand the hardline ketogenic people to advise against small seed oils. He uses the keto diet in various combinations with other tools. I haven’t gone into great detail in the Budwig protocol, but so far haven’t seen much of this type of combined therapies.

So, what’s the take on the Budwig diet as compared with the ketodiet?

Mohembo

(Bunny) #7

My opinion on this:

On the atomic level, I think this has to do with the quality of the substance used, if something has been processed, it will be missing an electron which causes a chaotic chain reaction where it scavenges or steals electrons from other vital functions and processes so that is why freshness matters!

Example 1 (Budwig): the cottage cheese from goat milk contains high sulfur content that inter-acts with the flaxseed oil from freshly ground flax seeds (authentic Budwig protocol), not the bottled processed refrigerated flax seed oils you will see lined up at a local health food store (mostly flax seed), already oxidized and rancid from simply sitting on the shelf, refrigerated or not!

Example 2 (Seyfried): Grass fed meats and unprocessed animal fats vs. grain-fed (missing vital nutrients) meats and fats from the fresh grass they eat and ground soil mineral and trace element composition quality! And of course fresh marine based foods?

The reason the Bugwig protocol may not work now is because of the depletion of vital trace elements and mineral in the ground soil which was different (micron particulate availability from sea salt in its original form, from ancient sea beds) from its current composition back in the days when Dr. Budwig was a very young lady she cured many people of cancer and was osterized by the German courts for doing so, she did not even have a medical degree at the time and was freaking everyone out!

I don’t think body measures the concentration of glucose in the sugar, the glucose is highjacked from healthy cells and is redirected to the cancer cells, as cancer cells have more insulin receptors than neighboring normal cells so it is going to metabolize or digest the sugar much more rapidly or aggressively.