Gary Taubes on why a LCHF diet stops working

(Richard Morris) #1
  • Rogan: Maybe people are lying about what they eat, or maybe they are missing essential nutrition, or what kind of rest they are getting
  • Taubes: Clearly there are people who compromise on this diet, they’ve bean hearing so long that fat is bad for you so they go low carb AND low fat - now you’re eating skinless chicken breasts and you’re not even putting butter on it … maybe they’re doing it wrong … but there are a lot of hormones that control this. The only way you can describe obesity is a hormonal dysregulation - Insulin, Stress hormones, Sex hormones
  • Rogan: Maybe they can go do some extreme exercise
  • Taubes: Lance Armstrong can eat 1000 calories of pasta and he has to go out ride for 3 hours cos he can’t store the energy as fat. I eat the same meal, I fall asleep on the couch. The impulse to physical activity is driven by our ability to store energy.
  • Rogan: Well sure they’ll lose weight if they starve themselves
  • Taubes: You can’t starve a basset hound and turn him into a greyhound, you’ll just get an emaciated basset hound.
(Dustin Cade) #2

i listened to this yesterday, i found it very entertaining.

(jketoscribe) #3

I thought Gary did a great job of keeping the focus on the fact that hormones, not caloric intake or exercise, regulate the system.

(Richard Morris) #4

Yeah and Joe kept coming back to calories in : calories out adequately describing storage.

#5

Joe Rogan is the reason I started my research to become a Ketoian. He uses Keto before events and stuff as a manner of lowering his weight and the need to be very productive in his busy times of the year. I forgot what episode where he talks about MMA fighters who all go into the ring Keto and the benefits it brings them and him.

Thanks for posting this, I might have missed this episode, while it is downloaded on my phone, I have a playlist of podcasts I listen on my work commute.

(John) #6

Just a friendly reminder to NEVER read YouTube comments. Leading cause of brain cell death.

(Erin Macfarland ) #7

I like Taubes but his message is usually applicable to men, I wish there was better representation regarding women’s hormones.

(jketoscribe) #8

He addressed it fairly well with what I think is one error.

He talked about the fact that a woman’s body is programmed to put on fat. Particularly in pregnancy and menopause because of HORMONES, not CICO. And he stated that women in menopause may not be able to lose fat, but on low carb they are “as lean as possible” given the hormone situation.

What I think was a glaring error is that he spoke about perhaps menopausal women need some testosterone to get a little leaner. High testosterone levels in women of reproductive age are a sign of hyperinsulemia and PCOS. And women with PCOS may have very high testosterone levels but they are usually NOT lean, because of the high insulin levels. Men, on the other hand, are leaner with more testosterone.

I noticed many people tend to talk about the value of higher testosterone levels. But they are talking about higher testosterone levels in men, not women. Testosterone has a very different effect in women.

(Erin Macfarland ) #9

Agreed and that’s why I felt like it was a very male centered discussion! Good insight :grinning:

(G. Andrew Duthie) #10

Yes, and no. With the caveat that I’m not an endocrinologist, I’d just observe that just as men should naturally have some estrogen, women should naturally have some testosterone. And testosterone does have an impact on body composition, and not just in men. It also has impact on mental acutity.

High estrogen associated with other medical conditions may include complications that would overshadow the impact of testosterone, absent the additional insulin.

And there’s a big difference between some testosterone, and high testosterone.

Again, I’m not an endocrinologist. But having had post-menopausal female family members who supplemented both estrogen/progesterone AND testosterone, I’ve had some exposure to the reasoning behind the inclusion of both.

Doesn’t mean that Taubes was 100% right on the topic. But it may not be as simple as any of us might wish. As for “male-centered discussion” well, Taubes was talking to an MMA fighter, after all. :slight_smile:

(G. Andrew Duthie) #11

BTW - I just finished listening to this, and I thought it was quite good. I’m only a couple chapters into Taubes’ new book, but one of the things I really do appreciate about his work is the historical perspective he brings. Understanding more about how we got into this mess is pretty important for crafting solutions to it that go beyond those of us who have already bought into ketogenic living.

I’m still working on getting my wife and kids to part ways with carby treats, both by demonstrating that there are keto alternatives that are just as tasty (made deep-fried chicken strips the other night with pork rind “breading”, and chocolate lava cake, both from recipes here on the forums), and by reiterating the message that sugar and starches are problematic in and of themselves. But this morning, my wife came home with a bag of Dove chocolates as a treat for her CCD class to celebrate one of the students’ baptism.

My wife has read Yudkin’s “Pure, White, and Deadly” and has seen the difference that carbs make in my weight and health. And yet she still buys sugary treats for her students, and sometimes for our boys. Given that, I am not terribly optimistic about how well the general population will receive the message. But Taubes makes a compelling case not just on the current state of the science, but on the forces that got us here. Something new I learned from the podcast was that Sunkist originated as a conglomerate of orange growers who needed an outlet for surplus fruit. Kind of puts a different spin on the “health” claims for orange juice when you know that.

Well worth the time to listen to.

(Jo Lo) #12

I attended his Seattle talk a few weeks ago, and I think that we have to remember that he is a journalist, good at telling extremely detailed somewhat arcane stories. In the question session after the talk I thought it was interesting that he mainly answered “I don’t know”, or “It depends…”, or “that needs more work”. I think Taubes is not trying to be an authority/expert/guru. He’s a humble reporter. He is really good at telling us who wrote what when, but in many cases he doesn’t claim to know definitive answers. His sugar book is a good example. It is a good read because it is extremely wide ranging and painstakingly documented, but the conclusion is unclear.

Please don’t try to put him in a box that he doesn’t fit in.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #13

That is a good sign, indeed. Suggests a degree of humility that too many “authorities” lack.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #14

Just read this, which is relevant to the discussion on hormones (and specifically calls out PCOS):

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2017/01/25/why-do-men-gain-weight-in-their-bellies.html

(Erin Macfarland ) #15

Yes! The discussion on HGH and insulin and sugar was fascinating!

(Clare) #16

Evergreen comment pal. x