Gaining Instead of Losing Fat

(David Mathis) #1

I thought this was just simple math, but apparently not.

I’ve been in deep ketosis for 2 months now, about an 8 daily per the keto strips. I walk on average about 5 miles a day, lift weights every other day, Intermittent fast, keep my fat intake at about 70% a day, protein 25%, blood glucose fine, eat around 1800 calories or less, but not much less. Drink only water or coffee and eat all Whole Foods, broccoli, leeks, cauliflower, spinach, fish, chicken avocados, nuts, nut oils like macadamia nut oil, olive oil, etc. never cheat. I’m not losing strength in the gym.

I do struggle with sleep and have an extremely stressful job.

I’m hovering around 185 lbs at 6ft 2. Over the past week I’ve gained up to 188. Over the past 3 weeks I’ve stayed at 185. My scale says it’s fat gained, not water. I am not lacking in energy, I feel fine.

How is it even possible to gain 3 lbs when I seem to be using more fuel than I put in my body? How am I not losing fat? Is my body just so efficient that I can walk marathon distances on half a peanut? Have I found the key that unlocks infinite energy? Makes no sense.

Should I cut my calories back more? Any ideas on why I would not be losing fat or in where my body getting energy from if I’m eating like a bird and walking great distances?

(Central Florida Bob ) #2

Three pounds in a week? In terms of calories, that’s 10,800 (if you go by 3600 to the pound), which means you ate 6 days worth of twice your normal 1800. I think that’s impossible. You’d know that you were eating twice what you ordinarily eat.

Therefore, I suggest water weight is what’s going on. Three pounds is a quart and cup. Spread over 6’2", I’d say not very noticeable. I’m really skeptical anyone could accidentally eat that much more than they think without knowing it. Perhaps the work stress is triggering some extra cortisol and that’s causing the water retention.

I’m not very convinced on calculating basal metabolic rate and calorie requirements. I think it’s darned near impossible to exert conscious control over energy input/output.

For what it’s worth, I’d say “KCKO”.

(mole person) #3

Can you give a day’s example of everything that you ate and drank and the times that you ate them?

(Robert C) #4

You are a 6’2’’ male on 1800 calories a day. That seems low for someone lifting daily and walking 5 miles. It could be a sign to your body that you are in a food scarcity situation and it holding on to whatever it can (specifically water weight since you are providing few calories). That stress, along with your other complaints about sleep troubles and a stressful job could all add up to the strange math problems you are encountering.

(David Mathis) #5

Maybe, but wouldn’t I be tired or have a lack of energy? And why can I walk 5 miles and lift weights and feel full of energy?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #6

Here’s a simple possibility. Keto trends toward an overall homeostatic state, which includes weight. At 6’2” your ‘normal’ weight may just be 180-185 pounds. Your scale is the least reliable tool you have to measure body comp. Buy a set of calipers.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #7

Another thing. Your urine strips are telling you that you’re just wasting a lot of acetoacetate. Nothing much else. So forget about so-called ‘deep ketosis’. You are in ketosis and that all that matters at the moment.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #8

Those bio-impedence scales are notoriously inaccurate. Don’t pay it any heed. Your weight is always going to fluctuate some, so don’t worry about the daily ups and downs. As long as you are keeping your carbohydrate low enough, you can trust your body to manage the food you are giving it. Don’t worry about the number of calories; just get a reasonable amount of protein and fill in calories with fat to satisfy your hunger. Some days you’ll eat more, some days less, but it will all average out to what you need. One hundred eighty to one hundred eighty-five is a good weight for someone your height; in fact you could probably go up to 190 and still be fine.

Bear in mind that your body is perfectly capable of putting on muscle at the same time as it sheds fat, and this alone will confuse your scale readings. As long as you have plenty of energy and are feeling well, you are doing keto right.

(Robert C) #9

I think “tired” and “energy” are descriptions of hormonal responses (which should be good while in ketosis).

If you instead think of calories-in-calories-out then yes, you should feel “low on energy”.

(David Mathis) #10

Good info here. Thanks.

Unfortunately I am very small framed so I do have very noticeable fat around my mid section at 185, which is always my main concern. I have been on keto before, for years at a time, and the weight my body seems to like is around 155. That’s where I usually get to the point where no more fat loss is possible and I enter into maint. I’m just baffled that this time I just sit at 185 and as noted above, and have started gaining. I guess I will just have to assume it’s water weight gained at this point and keep at it and hopefully I will start losing fat.

(David Mathis) #11

I’m also getting older, 43, so maybe that’s part of it. Last time I did keto was 2014 and that’s when I leveled off at 155.

(Scott) #12

I am 6’ 2" and 57 years old. I don’t really track or log anything but mentally keep track of carbs and aim for <50g. 155 pounds sounds very light to me. When I got down to 173 people started asking me if I was “well”. I have been hanging around 183 for months and only have a little belly fat to lose which I would if I gave up beer and wine. I probably have the same or similar scale as you. I don’t really thing the fat % is super accurate but the % does drop when I lose weight and goes up when I gain. When I was sickly thin after a prolonged period of caloric deficit combined with running 30 miles a week my BF got to 15%, Lately it is between 19 and 20%. I say you should play around a bit and up your fat cals. I know I am above 2000 cal a day eating three good meals with several handfuls of nuts as desert after dinner. My body is wanting to stay at 183 even with some good craft brews on the weekend. Eventually I would like to dial in at 177 but have plenty of time to get there.

(David Mathis) #13

I don’t pay much attention to what people consider sickly or well, especially in the USA where people have a warped sense of those things.

The USMC chart says min weight for my height is 148, so 155 is fine. It’s fine without the chart, because it’s when I feel my best, when I don’t have a bulging belly and love handles. I have a tiny frame, like a woman.

My concern here is that keto doesn’t seem to be working like it has in the past. I guess I will just keep doing what I am doing, because I can’t think of anything else to do.

(KCKO, KCFO 🥥) #14

Michael, those strips can also indicate dehydration, they are great at that and suck at true ketosis information. I agree at his height his body might not want to go lower.

#15

There may be something in this for you

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #16

S[quote=“collaroygal, post:14, topic:93611”]
Michael, those strips can also indicate dehydration,
[/quote]
Right you are. Thanks, I forgot about that.

(David Mathis) #17

I agree that the strips are not perfect, but it’s all I can afford ATM.

As far as hydration goes, I doubt that’s an issue. I drink about a gallon of water each day on top of coffee (decaf). I do a lot of walking in the hot sun so I drink more water than recommended as I am sweating more than usual.

I will read that article about the 3rd time around. Thanks!

(David Mathis) #18

I read the article and it focuses on three main points of which it seems only one of them could apply to me.

There’s was insulin resistance as we age, hormones (women) and lastly commitment.

There is evidence against insulin resistance as I stated in my initial post. I check my blood sugar regularly and my fasting reading is around the low 90s while 2 hours post meal I’m in the mid 90s. I’d expect these numbers to be higher if I was insulin resistant even to a small degree.

The hormone issue seems to be more targeting women.

I don’t have a lack of commitment. I stick strictly to the diet using a carb manager, ensuring I’m getting the calories and diversity I need in my diet to be nourished and energized. For any areas I think I might be missing nutrition I supplement. I don’t eat for pleasure or miss any foods that aren’t keto.

Other than that the article mentions starvation mode memory and that the body may remember the last time and hold out before flipping the switch. Maybe this is what’s happening? If so, it could be waiting a long time as I was in ketosis for over a year last round. Yes, I refer to my body as “it”, or something outside of myself. It does it’s own thing regardless of what I’m thinking, etc. It does what it does and I do my best to give it the things it seems to need to thrive until it wears out and dies. I didn’t ask for any of this, but here I am in this bizarre reality filter made of flesh.

(mole person) #19

The high end of optimal is around 80. You were likely more insulin sensitive 6 years ago.

Personally the urine strips work great for me. A deeper color generally reflect a deeper level of ketosis. When I show only trace or small levels my mood and energy are not at all the same as when I’m in the medium to high range. Also at trace ketosis I will never lose weight and can even gain.

My husband is small framed too and looks and feels great at 5’10 and 138 lbs so I have no trouble believing that 155 lbs could be right at your height.

Here are my suggestions for improving you loss rate:

Don’t use artificial or non-nutritive sweeteners or foods that contain any at all.

Don’t snack ever. If you are not hungry enough for a full meal then don’t eat. If you are then have a full meal.

Reduce you daily eating time frame. Start with having 100% of your calories in an 8 hr period. This will get your insulin levels lower through your ‘fasting’ period and your body will use your own fat more easily.

If you’re already doing all of those I can offer other suggestions. But those are the best starting places.

(David Mathis) #20

Good to know about the optimal blood sugar. Hopefully when I’m back at 155ish I can see 80s.

I’m already eating in an 8 hour window, between 10am and 6. I will give the no snack thing a shot though.

I’m glad to hear someone else agreeing that 155 is fine. I honestly have a ton of fat around my gut and midsection and it really concerns me. Plus I just feel cruddy with it there. Once again, this is my main concern. I’ve read that this is dangerous for men.