Fruits & Veggies: They Ain't Makin' Em Like They Used To?

(Fiddlestix H. McWhiskers) #1

Does anyone know if a book has been written about the history of the modification of fruits and vegetables? I’ve heard some speakers talk about how modern bananas used to be smaller, less sweet and full of seeds and that apples used to be smaller and bitter like crab apples. I’m curious to know if there is any literature that might confirm, or even speculate, that all fruits and vegetables used to contain less sugar and had fewer carbs.

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #2

Cor good question … no idea. I’d buy a book like that

(Chuck) #3

I eat fruits and vegetables in season. And if I have more than I can eat I freeze them. I don’t get my fruits and vegetables from a grocery store.

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #4

Origins of Fruit & Veg (book) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Origins-Fruit-Vegetables-Jonathan-Roberts/dp/0789306565

Evolution of Native Fruit https://blackwells.co.uk/bookshop/product/9781985071490?a_aid=bookhype

(Fiddlestix H. McWhiskers) #5

Thanks! Those look really good; especially the second one (Sketch of the Evolution of our Native Plants). I just found a pdf scan of it and it’s already proved very useful within 30 seconds of reading it. From the title page:

“It would be curious to speculate as to what our pomology would have been if the civilization from which it, and we ourselves, have sprung, had had its birthplace along the southern shores of our great lakes, the northern of the Gulf of Mexico, and the intervening Mississippi, instead of the Levant, Mesopotamia and the Nile, and our old world had been open to us as a new world less than four hundred years ago.”
— Asa Gray.

Pomology is a branch of botany that studies fruits and their cultivation. Someone who researches and practices the science of pomology is called a pomologist. This may be very helpful in my search!

edit By looking up pomology, I found olericulture, which is the vegetable version of pomology. Just the book’s title page has already proved to be very helpful!

(Fiddlestix H. McWhiskers) #6

I’m trying to harmonize what I’ve been learning about how our bodies deal with meats, proteins and carbs/sugars with my faith. I have some theories and speculations, but I didn’t know if discussing the intersection of diet and faith would be unwelcome here. I noticed that most of the carnivore groups on Facebook explicitly forbid discussing “religion.” I tried to find a “forum rules” posting, but I haven’t been able to find one.

#7

Simply eating them earlier drastically changes the sugar/carb content.

A 100g worth of banana (the way my wife likes them) does almost nothing to my sugars.

same amount the way I like them (when they’re ripe enough to taste like a banana, will legit spike me, not a transient rise/fall, full on spike!

That’s two banana’s from the same bunch keep in mind.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #8

We have the occasional question about how to eat keto within certain religious restrictions. For example, the Christian injunction to fast and abstain in a penitential season such as Lent might cause a problem to a carnivore. However, religious injunctions usually have a clause allowing modifications for health reasons, and restoring metabolic health is an important goal.

Ben Bikman, a Mormon, has a couple of lectures on line that reason about Mormon recommendations that he believes interfere with metabolic health. Also, the Seventh-Day Adventists, who have a very strict doctrine opposed to eating meat, are far more relaxed in practice.

Basically, if it can be discussed cordially and objectively, and it is keto-related,* it is allowed on these forums. If the thread gets contentious, political, or acrimonious, however, it will be either locked or removed.

*should go without saying! :smile:

(Fiddlestix H. McWhiskers) #9

Thank you; that’s very helpful. I’ll post it somewhere in the Zero Carb/Carnivore section when I have my thoughts together more.

#10

It’s very well known and obvious too that most wild fruits weren’t this wonderful and sweet… I quite enjoy the biggest part of the changes, sometimes I do feel that fruits and vegs got way too sugary… But it’s me, my sweetness perception has changed a lot.
I don’t know any literature though.

It works for some fruits… Sadly, my favs need full ripeness even if I find the sugar content excessive. The flavor and juiciness may be not right early. And unripe banana has too much starch and a green flavor, yuck. I need lots of spots :smiley: I rather use smaller amounts (and choose what kind of fruit I eat… well I can’t choose if it’s in my garden, of course I taste them all…) but my fruit must be in peak form!

(Bob M) #11

It would be interesting to see what something like a crab apple would do as compared to a regular apple (you’d have to eat the same amount though). When I was in my teens, I ate a ton of crab apples. People said you’d get a stomach ache if you ate too many, but I never did.

And I wonder if it would change based on where you live? I am 77 percent or so Eastern European, and if I knew more about where my ancestors were from, it’d be interesting to see what fruit or vegetables to which they had access and when. Where I live now (CT, USA), even 10 years ago (it’s MUCH hotter now), you wouldn’t have access to fruits or vegetables for very long if you grew them yourself. A few months at most.

Some religions are hindered by certain rules. For instance, not mixing dairy and meat, no pork, etc., and the anti-saturated fat rules haven’t helped.

(Doug) #12

Crab apple eater here too, Bob. 1960s, early 70s… I remember them as very tart, very very tart - compared to store-bought apples, but really not too bad once you had a few bites.