Fructose: how much if any?

science
(mole person) #47

Yup, the cheapo Halloween candy. They are yummy though. Curious though, you still find adding glucose significantly helps your workouts?

(Chris) #48

The jury is still out, I haven’t done much experimenting just yet. Though, when I get my honey I plan to put this to the test. Probably will just have the two tablespoons pre-workout and see what happens.

When I have experimented, though I haven’t tested my blood, I’m burping ketones again by the time the workout concludes.

(Karim Wassef) #49

If you do the honey, track your glucose and ketone before during and after. It would be very interesting to characterize both the hormonal effects (indirectly) and your progressive overload improvements (or workload depending on how you measure your progress).

Data!!!

(Chris) #50

…that would mean I’d have to buy a meter.

(Karim Wassef) #52

No. Glucose is an energy source, but we can maintain very high levels of fatty acid and ketones in the blood with no ill effects. Glucose, on the other hand, is highly oxidative and causes nerve damage. It must be sequestered. Insulin is defensive against damage that is just about non reversible.

diabetic neuropathy: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/diabetic-neuropathy/symptoms-causes/syc-20371580

The digestive system is a primary defensive organ. The body prioritizes digestion based on danger… first alcohol, then glucose, then protein, then fat.

The body regulates glucose but only needs to keep it at ~50 for those cells that don’t have mitochondria and need to use glucose only… red blood cells, some parts of the brain, etc…

(Karim Wassef) #53

Dude. It’s $100…

I measure so I can figure out what my body is really doing. When I fast and feast, or when I lift and sauna… I know how it’s cycling.

On my 19 day fast, I hit a glucose low of 36 and a ketone high of 9.3… it was awesome.

(Karim Wassef) #54

Do you have more on this?

(Chris) #55

Yeah I don’t see the point for myself. Rather spend that on steak.

(Carissa JB) #56

No fructose!

(Karim Wassef) #58

No.

Ketoacidosis is a failure of metabolic processes and a serious complication of diabetes where high glucose and high insulin result is an acidification of the blood…

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/diabetic-ketoacidosis/symptoms-causes/syc-20371551

Ketones are not the problem… Glucose is.

I’ve fasted for weeks and reached glucose levels under 40 and ketone levels over 9 with no negative side effects. I get tested so I know my own n=1 and it aligns directly with the research.

(Karim Wassef) #60

Please do more research.

Your assertions here are not evidence based. If you believe Ancel Keys, that’s your choice.

There are plenty of people who are dying based on misinformation and ignorance of the facts.

Please help be part of the solution, not propagating misinformation.

:wink:

(Karim Wassef) #62

Let’s look at the toxicity of insulin - insulin is in response to glucose

https://idmprogram.com/insulin-toxicity-t2d-37/

and toxicity of glucose directly

Glucose = oxidative stress = damage

and oxidative stress causes mitochondrial damage

https://www.fasebj.org/doi/abs/10.1096/fj.01-1027com

This is old science…

(Karim Wassef) #63

To be clear, there are cells that need glucose and the liver provides very controlled quantities to support their function. It’s a chemical that the body carefully controls to minimize oxidative damage.

Both high glucose and high insulin are destructive to blood vessels and organs.

HOW HIGH BLOOD SUGARS DAMAGE BLOOD VESSELS:

(Karim Wassef) #64

Fructose is a problem - no question

Glucose is also a problem …

(Karim Wassef) #67

chronic high glucose > chronic insulin > insulin resistance > hyperglycemia > oxidative stress > disease and reduced longevity

https://insulinresistance.org/index.php/jir/article/view/18/25

If you want to age faster, enjoy your starches… people have had to survive on many things. It doesn’t mean that they’re healthy or long lived.

Dr John McDougall has been spreading the “starch” gospel for years… I’ve listened to his talks and frankly, it’s unsubstantiated by the science.

(Karim Wassef) #68

I’m also running a vegan keto feeding and fast right now… but I will admit that I’m a carnivore most of the year.

(Karim Wassef) #70

so you’re actually arguing that chronic glucose intake, which stimulates chronic insulin release doesn’t cause insulin resistance… a condition where the body’s cells are unresponsive to chronic levels of insulin… wow…

the articles I linked point to the more clear conclusion that excess insulin causes insulin resistance … again:

and here is the causality chain… where do you see the problem of causality:

chronic high glucose > chronic insulin > insulin resistance > hyperglycemia > oxidative stress > disease and reduced longevity

It’s fascinating that you believe that starch is the solution and fat is the problem.

As far as weight loss - that’s not even what I’m talking about. High glucose and high insulin cause oxidative damage and accelerate aging and disease… weight and fat is a symptom of disease, not the cause.

If you do want to talk about weight loss, it’s about satiation and carbs, especially glucose, have an incredibly potent effect on appetite because of insulin. It’s why Keto works in the first place. Fats satiate. Starches don’t because they cause fluctuations in blood glucose causing chronic eating of more carbs, and that drives overeating and weight gain. It’s a sick cycle that is killing people!

It is possible to lose weight by eating starches in a caloric deficit, but if you look at the underlying physiology, the lean mass loss is higher than on a fat based keto diet.

You may really believe that starches are the answer… but the science is pointing in the opposite direction.

I cited several articles that explicitly point to the damage caused by glucose and insulin… you don’t respond to those - if you advocate for starches, then the glucose and resulting insulin should be good for us, right? and the insulin resistance that builds up over time should be good for us too? and it’s also the cause of poor satiation causing weight gain and that should be good for us, right?

Just fascinating … I’m trying to understand why you believe that glucose that spikes insulin isn’t a problem… on every front. Do you have any articles that show that constantly spiking insulin is good for us? that eating starches vs. eating fats results in less lean mass loss?

(Karim Wassef) #71

@atomicspacebunny

Bunny - you had a link for the starch based diet… can you share that here? I think it would be useful.

(Karim Wassef) #73

I’ve done that. I’ll let the community review the publications and decide for themselves.

I’ll ask you again to show the break in the causation chain I pointed to.

Here’s the simple way the disease (insulin resistance) and the symptom (fat mass gain) tie back to glucose.

Eat starch … blood glucose spikes… insulin released… triglycerides sequestered in fat cells… repeat… chronically

This glucose fluctuation drives overeating and weight gain… just noting that here.

Eventually the fat cells are incapable of handling the excess and become insulin resistant… in some people, they can be slim and already get there, once they are insulin resistant, glucose levels rise, then insulin levels rise. Both are damaging and cause nerve and organ damage and premature death.

watch the video and skip 16 minutes in to get to the key

watch and skip 6 minutes in

watch and skip 4.5 minutes in and then 7 minutes in … the “overfill adiposite”

skip 10 minutes in

skip 1 minute in

(Karim Wassef) #75

The experts cited here have shown clinical results and they use the term glucose over and over.

I’ll let the forum decide where the science is.

science from 1996

The results suggests that quickly digested starch promotes the development of insulin resistance in rats. The relatively slow time course resembles the normal development of insulin resistance in humans.

Just a note here - misinformation causes harm.

If abstaining from glucose causes no harm - that’s one thing. Don’t eat glucose (or fructose)… noone is hurt.

If endorsing a glucose diet as healthy actually causes harm, that’s another thing entirely… people get hurt.

humility is always important.