Former athlete/current scientist completely overwhelmed by the ways keto has already changed my life (& ?s about calibrating macros/cals for my keto-boosted activity levels!

[Keto6468]

Thanks, Brenda!

K

[JGL]

One of the fascinating things about this process for me is thinking about how many of my senior anthropologists have talked to me about being pre-diabetic in the past couple of years-- a few of them who were shocked because they are “slender.” This was an actual topic of conversation at a big group dinner at our annual meeting at the American Anthropological Association last fall.

While we all (these were cultural and medical anthropologists) understand the fundamentals of evolutionary anthropology re: nutrition, all of us, myself included, talked about the culprit as processed food and chemical preservatives artificially boosting insulin, but no one talked about the contribution of unprocessed carbohydrates and sugar metabolically.

You may or may not be surprised to know that for those of us who do fieldwork, many of us have predominantly plant-based diets when when are back in the US to “compensate” for all the fresh meat we eat when we are abroad. In my department, we even have a “Bean Monday” where everyone brings in different bean-based dishes to share.

It is really funny in reading what you’ve both written above, @Brenda and @Keto6468 that there is a bit of a disconnect for many of my colleagues and myself between our training and our practice. I am really really surprised that I don’t know of any anthropologists who are eating keto and the only anthropologist I knew who was Paleo is Gary, who is in the film. (Side note: he didn’t really mention this in the film, but he literally made all of those models of the early humans that you see in the film. His actual specialty is creating fully-fleshed anatomical models of early humans by combining his knowledge of osteology and evolutionary nutrition. His office is one of the craziest things you have ever see, covered in half-muscled limbs and calipers and like, models of noses.)

But even amongst our colleagues, Gary being Paleo is seen as “a little out there.” Anthropological meetings, conferences, business dinners-- they’re all really carb-driven and a huge percentage of the profession, especially the folks not doing fieldwork are vegetarian. As someone who does work that relates in a broad way to cultural impacts of climate change, so many of my colleagues favor the mentality of meat consumption accelerating climate change as well as the old science on heart disease, etc. I can tell that talking about keto openly in my academic community is going to be controversial, but I am really interesting in sharing back here what I hear from them as I carry on with this path.

[JGL]

Hi Brenda,

Would you mind sharing your insight on what you think would be a “moderate” amount of protein for me, given the stats I mentioned in my original post?

I am not sure exactly how to balance my macros in light of going from less active to very active so quickly. I am having trouble picking a macro ratio that will support keto but not decrease muscle strength while I am so suddenly active but still becoming fat-adapted.

Many many thanks!

[collaroygal]

I’m loving this thread, thanks for sharing your story @JGL. Glad you are seeing good results so quickly. Your systems must not be too damaged for such a quick restart.

Isn’t it funny how this stuff can be right under our noses and we don’t see it? A bunch of anthropologists who do field work with people and their diets, not seeing how the paleo/keto diets have evolved? Kinda like the dietitions and nutritionists seeing keto heal diabetics but they keep parroting “do not eat a low carb diet”.

All the best on your journey back to health and fitness. I’m sure you’ll get lots of support and learn a good deal from the folks in the forums here.

BTW, you have a dream job in my book. I took tons of anthro/archeology classes at uni, but never entered the field… I still love reading about it though.

[brownfat]

JGL, I’d suggest that whatever dietary recommendations you choose to follow regardless of the source think of it as just your starting point. And then experiment, determine your goals and track how well you are achieving them. It’s challenging, the data is fuzzy and it is impossible to isolate factors. Stress, sickness, sleep, unknown toxic exposures, etc. can each play at times as big if not a bigger role than diet. But you have scientific training and you have awareness that diet is a powerful lever and that conventional dietary wisdom is suboptimal for you. I doubt anyone ever achieves perfection in diet and at least in my case it appears to be a moving target. But tracking what works for you will probably get you closer than following a formula.

Anyway, welcome to the keto forums. Good luck in learning what works for you. I hope you continue to share your thoughts, efforts and results.

[JGL]

Thanks so much for such nice words, @collaroygal! I won’t lie, I kind of have my dream job too! Seven years in and I still kind of expect to wake up and find out I’ve been dreaming it all somehow.

There are a few people who have jumped in saying they have an interest in anthropology and I am thinking about starting an anthropology thread here? I would focus on medical anthro, since that is my specialty, with a mix of literature and news about nutrition and infectious disease, epidemiology, etc. Do you think that would be welcome? And if so, where should I even put it?

Thank again for your comment and also seeing the irony of my own field!

[240lbfatloss]

It’s fascinating to consider how the concept of vegetarianism has evolved. Modern vegetarianism is really a post-Darwinian belief. It really was/is based on reasonable hypotheticals of the day. If you accept the broader concept of Man’s evolution from a common ancestor of Great Apes and Man, you’d naturally look towards vegetarian nutritional patterns.

The problem is, of course, not understanding the vast span of time that has passed since the Common Ancestor, (possibly 5-7 million years) and the extent of the physical and biochemical changes that have occurred due to Natural Selection in all the intermediate species since then.

Man’s Evolution has been towards Obligate Carnivory, not away from it. Vegetarianism and Veganism are based on faith based beliefs, not Science.

[collaroygal]

There are a few people who have jumped in saying they have an interest in anthropology and I am thinking about starting an anthropology thread here? I would focus on medical anthro, since that is my specialty, with a mix of literature and news about nutrition and infectious disease, epidemiology, etc. Do you think that would be welcome? And if so, where should I even put it?

The Keto Chat area if for topics that don’t fit anywhere else. I just started a thread over there we can post under there, be sure to bookmark it for later:

Medical anthropology anyone?

We have a new member @JGL who is a medical anthropologist. Some others of us have a strong interest in anthropology as well. Come chat and share any interesting articles or/and research you have heard about, etc. Don’t you just love learning new things about our world?

[JGL]

Ahhhhhh, This.Is.Awesome.

Everyone is making me feel so welcome and it is really lovely, thanks. Will start thinking about things to add!

[Shadylady1]

Such a shame, and breaks my heart… “A little out there”.

Why are we all or have certainly been such dumb sheep? We were told, by trusted experts…

People can not wrap their heads around the facts that the government does not have your best interests at heart. Sad. Because they should.

My poor Dad hospitalized over the summer… hosp Still imsisting on giving him a “heart healthy diet”
Oatmeal, cereal, whole grain, margarine, makes me really insanely angry.
Luckily I was allowed to bring food. But if the man wanted eggs and butter from his menu… Disallowed. Stupidity.

[Brenda]

Would you mind sharing your insight on what you think would be a “moderate” amount of protein for me, given the stats I mentioned in my original post?

There are varying recommendations for protein.
It’s really your decision. Reasonable and sane amounts suggest anywhere from .3 grams of protein per pound of lean body mass to 1 gram protein per pound of lean body mass. I chose to pick the middle road and I eat .5 g of protein per pound of lean body mass. I’m 5 foot 7 and my lean body mass is 130 lb so I make sure I eat a minimum of 70 grams protein per day. This is enough for me to maintain and build muscle with my twice weekly heavy lifting routine (I confirmed 4 pounds new lean mass by DEXA scan).

I’m not as vigorous an athlete as you. In your case I would add 10 to 20 more grams of protein per day OR get bookend DEXA’s to confirm you are maintaining lean mass.

[JGL]

Thank you, this is so helpful to hear your take on the spectrum of suggestions and your personal experience with how you have calibrated your own numbers and your results. I really appreciate you taking the time to offer that. Will keep folks posted with my own n=1 on exploring different numbers along that protein spectrum! Many thanks!

[JGL]

I really don’t think that people who don’t know this information are dumb sheep. I’ll use myself as an example-- I have really all the professional training necessary to understand the benefits of this lifestyle, but didn’t hear good information on it until the past year or so. In Western philosophy, there is a real disconnect between brain and body, so it doesn’t surprise me that it is taking a lot of time for people to come around to this WOE/WOL.

I have nothing but compassion for people exploring different routes and my only hope is that people find a path to wellness/healing that nourishes and supports them. It is no one’s fault that corporate interests have obfuscated this data from us for decades. This is why I feel passionate about my own activism around educating voters on issues like where politicians get their funding.

The ballot box is one of the most powerful ways to impact the way the standard American diet will change in the years to come. While we’re on the path to trying to lessen corporate control on our dinner plates, it’s all about empathy for those who have all sorts of defensive/contradictory opinions to this WOE. It takes a long time to work through the socialization about what “normative” “Western” “dietary recommendations.”

Hell, I am an anthropologist and literally professionally examine perception, normalization and socialization on a daily basis and I am STILL working through my own issues around that as I start the keto path. I still have anxieties around dietary fat and heart disease even though I have read the good literature. I still get apprehensive about the climate impact of the amount of meat I am eating. This path of reorienting thinking takes a long time. I am trying to practice patience with myself and, of course, with others, while also not being afraid of talking about it this with the people around me.

[240lbfatloss]

Have you ever heard of the book: “People, Plants, & Genes”? It’s written by Denis Murphy, Head of the Biotechnology Unit at the University of Glamorgan, Wales, UK. Here’s a bit of the description.

“This book provides a comprehensive overview of the complex story of human-plant interactions, from the hunter-gatherers of the Paloelithic Era, through to the 21st century and the molecular genetic manipulation of crops”.

It’s a pretty good reference re the domestication of crops.

I liked your Sudan example of what happens when modern processed carbs become part of a nutritional pattern. South Africa is currently in the midst of a massive diabetes epidemic due to the same reasons. Masai who have moved to the cities are also experiencing major health issues.

[atomicspacebunny]

Medical anthropology anyone?

Dirt eater here! There are even more benefits to eating dirt than they know, especially with keto! This is ancient stuff! Does not take much to get benefits! This is the part that gets a mere (the most important) blip in the ancient acetic dietary subsistence habits in the paleo anthropological literature besides eating all the guts (offal; i.e. organ meats, marrow & bone)… Why Eating Dirt Should Be Part of Your Daily Routine https://draxe.com/eating-dirt/ The Old And Mysterious Practice Of…

[JGL]

Okay, you just blew my mind. I literally only knew about eating dirt in the context of pica. Had no idea this was a contemporary medical practice! Can you tell me about how and where you are sourcing your dirt while I am reading up on this? I can understand conceptually the benefits re: microbiome and immunological support and therefore, digestion and overall health, but I am having a hard time balancing that with sourcing in ways that are free of industrial/environmental contaminants and pathogenic bacteria from animal waste.

Literally fascinated by this, thanks for bringing this up!

[atomicspacebunny]

Remember this guy?
Edward Jenner and the history of smallpox and vaccination
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1200696/

Dirt does the same thing when eaten at a young age!

Thought this was interesting:
Hey Doc, Waddya got for Cows Eating Dirt?
https://www.abcplus.biz/Doc_Holliday_Cows_Eating_Dirt
“…Unfortunately, mainstream nutritionists tend to downplay the ability of animals to balance their nutritional needs. Anyone who doubts that cattle can make valid nutritional choices needs to watch cows graze in a mixed pasture. They do not just mow grass like a lawn mower, but pick and choose each mouthful. They avoid eating the bright green grass surrounding ‘cow pies’ in the pasture but will search the fence-rows for weeds that concentrate various essential trace minerals. Given the chance, they will balance their nutritional needs during each feeding period. …”
Then see this thread: Trouble ahead with grass fed beef NPR

[JGL]

I haven’t gotten a chance to read the second link yet, I will do so in a little bit, but I thought that I would share this to explain why I am so delighted with this conversation.

I have a special professional interest in the anthropology of vaccination and disease eradication, but especially in traditional practices around natural immunization. This conversation is easily something that I can envision integrating into the version of this curriculum that I am currently making for medical students.

In the interim, Bunny, you might enjoy this curriculum I wrote called Politics, People and Pathogens. There is some stuff in there on land use and allocation, but I think you would really enjoy the Tropica Medicine History, Vaccination, Eradication and Ethnomedicine sections. The course guide explains all the readings and activities and the powerpoints all have my lecture notes embedded.

If I incorporate any of this material, I will add you to the acknowledgments sections at the end of the course guide!

Will come back after I read up a little more on this!

[JGL]

Whoops, forgot link

Politics and Pathogens | AMNH

[atomicspacebunny]

Thank you for the link, will be a good read!

By the way the cows I linked above, I am presuming are after (instinctually) the chlorophyll (chlorin magnesium ligand) in the article above!