Force yourself to eat more?

#1

Background: I started the keto lifestyle at the beginning of August with the primary goal of fat loss, but fully understand it’s a way of life, not a diet. I lost 10 lbs in the first month and have been hovering around that weight for the second month. I figure there are changes happening and am not too concerned about the number on the scale as I do strength training and know I am likely replacing fat with muscle. Although if I’m being honest, it would be really nice to see that number on the scale move down.

Anyway, my question is: Is there a point at which you should be forcing yourself to eat? I eat omad some days (other days it’s tmad). I just eat when I’m hungry and sometimes I’m not hungry when it’s dinner time. I don’t track macros anymore because I just know that I’m eating less than 20 net carbs and I eat the same few foods. Out of curiosity, I put my meal into a tracker yesterday and was shocked at how few calories I had eaten. Is this concerning? Should I force myself to be eating more? Should I be tracking to make sure I’m eating enough?

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FYI, I’m not a vegetarian just unintentionally had a meatless meal yesterday. Maybe the key is to add bacon? I feel like bacon is always the answer :wink:

(Robin) #2

Yes is the short answer. I lost my appetite fairly early on and low calories will sabotage any weight loss. Especially if you you have lost and gained and starved yourself over the years.
Keto is not about calories, but you still need to maintain enough.
It’s still early, but make yourself eat more. You’ll like start losing again.
As always… this is my experience only.

(Allie) #3

This is why I’m not a fan of OMAD for most people.

Yes, you need to eat more.

#4

Thank you! @robintemplin Do you recommend more cals/meal or more meals/day?

(Pete A) #5

You are at a big calorie deficit and will drop pounds at that rate, but can only help to add a few hundred calories.

I won’t criticize your choice of food but will say unprocessed food may be a better choice.

Perhaps meat!

(Laurie) #6

Maybe build your meal(s) around meat? Everything in your list (and even bacon) is an “extra” – a side dish or a snack – rather than the basis for an actual meal.

Nice record keeping! Good luck figuring it out.

(Robin) #7

Both? Whatever works best for you. Eat more often worked best for me when I was new. Now I have one or two meals. And if I have a hunger pang, I grab some carb free jerky or pork rinds or a hunk of meat. It takes a while to learn how to discern the difference between truly hungry (body says feed me!) and emotional cravings.
But you’ll get there.
You got this.

#8

I started out on OMAD as it felt natural for me, but I was also having some days where I just didn’t have the appetite for a full days cals in one sitting, or really at all.

I’ve switched to 2MAD now; lunch and dinner, and that seems to be working out better for me to get up to an average of around 2000+ cals per day.

I do find it hard to force food down still if my appetite is super low, but my weight loss has definitely accelerated since I’ve pushed harder to keep the cals up so that’s some decent motivation for me : )

#9

Tracking for a while probably would be useful, yes.
And I am against force but you should try to eat more, one way or another. Drink many calories if that is easier, it definitely is for me - but I very, very rarely have problems with eating little, more like the opposite. But I still had undereating days and drinking calories is super easy for me, similar with very soft things. And most of us have less satiating items. Many of us have food items that we barely can stop eating! Add more meals if needed. Don’t care about hunger, I probably would be in a bad place if I waited for hunger to eat…

It’s one thing you barely eat but you eat very low protein too from my viewpoint.

And you probably don’t eat enough micronutrients as it gets harder as calories drop.

Don’t you eat proper food like meat or eggs? They aren’t mandatory, I am just asking. Some nuts and cheese and avocado and whatever is in the bread (almost nothing if it’s 70 kcal) and little from each too… It doesn’t sound good.

Yeah, some people just can’t eat some proper meal, I don’t get why they force OMAD either. I can’t always eat a decent 1600 kcal meal either but on those days I don’t do OMAD. I eat 5 times if I have to. No matter what one’s views about number of meals and eating windows are, we need to get our nutrients, it’s basic.

#10

Thanks, all!

I do! I just hadn’t yesterday. I love avocado toast with cream cheese so I made that for lunch yesterday and was satiated so I stopped. I usually eat some beef, chicken, or pork every day. I’m not huge on eggs but I’ll eat them. I don’t eat seafood.

That would absolutely motivate me! I’ll give it a go!

#11

If it’s an odd low-cal day, that’s fine… But you probably wouldn’t worry about it if it was occasional…

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #12

This is a tricky question. The problem is that calorie restriction is endemic as the conventional wisdom for losing weight, when the real secret to shedding excess fat is to eat in such a way as to get the body out of sugar-burning mode and into fat-burning mode. This requires limiting carbohydrate intake in order to allow insulin to drop below the threshold.

The problem with calorie restriction, whether we are keto or not, is that the metabolism eventually drops to compensate. It’s a response to famine. However, if you are in ketosis for any length of time, the drop in insulin usually frees your appetite hormones to work properly (since you are no longer eating like a bear trying to put on fat for the winter), and so your appetite often drops spontaneously (not intentionally). This is why we talk about restricting carbohydrate and eating to satiety. And note that the absence of hunger feels quite different from the stuffed feeling resulting from eating 3/4 of a pound of pasta.

Phinney’s research shows that people embarking on a well-formulated ketogenic diet often spontaneously eat about 1000 calories less than their daily energy expenditure, because the “missing” calories are coming from excess stored fat. As the excess fat gets metabolised, the calorie gap shrinks, until the person is eating enough to meet the day’s energy needs.

So if you are spontaneously eating the amount you are eating it is probably okay. If you are cutting calories intentionally, stop doing that, because that tells your body there’s a famine going on, and it will hunker down and conserve resources (this is why losing weight by moving more and eating less is so difficult). But it is possible to permanently damage one’s metabolism, as shown by the experience of the contestants on The Biggest Loser, so it is tricky to advise people how much they should be eating.

If you have had a metabolic test (a real one, not advice from the Internet) and know what your daily energy expenditure actually is, you can examine your diet to see if you’re getting enough. Fluctuations in appetite don’t necessarily match a given day’s exertions, but over seven or eight days, you should find your intake and expenditure matching rather precisely (and accounting for fat removed from adipose tissue, as well). If they don’t, then you’ll have to take action. If your metabolism is abnormally slowed, there is a process called “reverse dieting” that can help you bring it back up to a reasonable range.

Given, however, that your energy expenditure is typical (at least as far as Cronometer seems to be indicating), and your caloric intake is about the level Phinney determined is typical for beginners, you are probably okay. If you are seriously eating enough to fully satisfy your hunger, then you can probably trust it as a guide.

And yes, bacon is always the answer! :bacon::bacon::bacon:

#13

Disagree on both, how you eat isn’t a “lifestyle”, it’s just food. A diet is whatever you eat, regardless of whether it’s a structured WOE or not. I know people like to say that, but to me that’s walking the line of vegans making their WOE their religion, I just can’t do it. Rant over.

Honestly, people over play the “changes happening thing” but since you’re lifting (good!) it’s true the scale will be slower to react, but you can’t put on muscle as fast as you lose fat, so you’re right, it should still be dropping, just slower. True Recomposition is EXTREMELY hard to do!

YES! When your appetite leads you into failure. If that less than 1000cals is normal for you, that’s exactly where you are right now. Don’t expect results if you’re not paying attention to what you’re eating, you’re going to fail, sorry. Very few people can intuitively eat correctly. It’s a great dream, but there’s literally been studies to prove how terrible the majority is at doing it.

Not eating is a stress to the body, eating <1000 is a stress to that body. I also wouldn’t expect near any results with muscle gain at 54g of protein a day, I honestly wouldn’t expect somebody to maintain their current muscle mass at that low of a protein intake. OMAD is not a friend of muscle gain. You’re lifting, you need fuel and to remain in a positive nitrogen balance as much as possible to fuel growth, recovery, and all your normal protein needs.

Not sure what your lifting program looks like, but the fact you’re able to eat that little while actively lifting is a very good indicator your metabolism is on the downswing. Lifting should be making you hungrier, which would be very normal.

I’d go by the go-to of 1g/lb bodyweight on protein and make sure you get it in, prioritize it. Get your carbs that you eat in, and on the fat, that one you may have to play with. Many of us have found we gotta limit it. I can’t lose fat if my fat crosses the 100g mark, but ideally 60-80g. Your body has no reason to burn stored fuel when you’re giving it plenty. If that doesn’t get you to your calorie goal, I’d just add more protein if possible, you’re not going to get fat from protein, sometimes it can be tricky.

If you have trouble figuring out macros that work for your goals you can either start figuring it out weekly until you hit the sweet spot by paying attention to your results and tweaking slowly, if you don’t know how to do the math on that I can write out what I’ve done and what most people do to figure it out and attempt to compensate for the fluxuations, or you can cheat with an app that does it all for you, downside to that it’s not free, but it’s awesome and worth it to make it effortless.

(Kathy) #14

Forcing ??

When I first started Keto 2 years ago, my Doctor felt the best results were from 2 good meals a day, and 16/8. The first meal, about 11 am was a hard one for me, coming from a life time of Breakfast first thing, mostly Oatmeal, egg/avocado on toast. I had to really force myself to get through a decent keto 11am meal. I had consistent, weight loss, nothing rapid or severe.
Then at about the one year mark, I started to stall, so I went to OMAD plan Man that suited me!!
The fast time was generally 20 hours. Starting with a small snack about about 3-4pm, then dinner by 6:30.
Weight loss kicked in again then leveled out for 10 months. I accepted that as my goal weight, and just ate to maintain it. Then the last 4 months I started eating 4 out of 7 days a light meal between 11-1pm. Choices, (Keto Bread, egg, tomato, or avocado. Plain yogurt and berries. I have dropped another 5 pounds over the last 4 months.

So my point is do not be afraid of switching things up.

Cheers

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #15

I find some of the replies here perplexing, as well as the idea of OMAD as some sort of rule.

  1. Eat from the approved foods.
  2. Eat when you are hungry.
  3. Stop when you are satiated.

There should be absolutely no need to force yourself to eat, or to avoid eating when you find yourself hungry.

(None of the above constitutes medical advice. Speak to your doctor, as always, about any change you make.)

(Allie) #16

When you’ve restricted your food intake long enough to make the metabolism slow down to the point of it being harmful, then yes, there is absolutely the need to force food so as to gradually increase metabolism again and heal the damage caused to the body.

It’s not a case of forcing down entire meals of 500 calories, but a very gradual increase of around 100 calories a week to slowly wake things up again. This is a well established and proven strategy for health and used worldwide by fitness enthusiasts, athletes, and regular people.

#17

Yeah but life isn’t so perfect so some people end up eating a few hundreds of calories and messing up everything if they just follow their hunger and satiation. It’s odd that their bodies are fine with definitely too little but it happens sometimes.

The rules 2. and 3. aren’t good for all of us anyway. Sometime
Sometimes one doesn’t get hungry for days or weeks or ever. It doesn’t mean a long EF is in order. I can’t do EF (without a very carby last meal, at least), I suffer and have various problems even if I completely lack hunger. Maybe my “need to eat” is translated as hunger for some people (or they don’t know it can happen without hunger. I have an SO who gets everything at once, appatite, hunger and need for fuel. I have them all over the place, almost completely uncorrelated. surely it happens to others as well but I definitely heard about people without any hunger ever. and ketoers who automatically starved on keto because they couldn’t eat enough and they were already underweight. IDK if some ED was present, that can mess with things for sure).

No matter how satiated one feels, eating very, very little is a problem. Okay, some very heavy people can pull it off but not most of us.

Similarly, I can imagine multiple scenarios (as I am intimately familiar with them) when one should stop eating despite hunger. I prefer changing my woe to avoid those situations but I can understand if someone just put their food down when they are already very seriously overate on that day and start to feel bad. And hungry, hunger is unreliable sometimes. I consider my bodily signs pretty okay but I still don’t make my “when to eat” decisions based solely on hunger. And I imagine it’s totally messed up for some others. I hear about mixing hunger with something else all the time and I don’t get it, hunger isn’t similar to anything else… (But I have various hungers and some I totally ignore and it’s fine.)

Normally, I agree though. The OP has a clearly not normal case unless the low-cal day is occasional. Most people don’t starve when eating according to hunger on keto. Some do. And some overeat (or just eat at maintenance while being fat, I don’t really like that either though it’s not the worst by far).

But that’s a tiny meal… Okay I go away. But HOW anyone can increase kcals by 100? I can’t even track nearly that accurately and one day is way bigger than the other… It must be some special skill. I never was good with control if it was about food where I like freedom.
But yes, one should raise their kcals and metabolism when it slows down, of course. It’s so odd for me to read that it’s fine to eat little when one isn’t hungry even when the macros are worryingly low. It forces the body to slow down metabolism, it really has not many other options then (unless there are people who loses fat and protein like crazy while not feeling a problem for a while, no idea if such a weird and evolutionally very unpractical mutation is a thing. but so many even weirder condition is a thing…)

#18

I agree with @gabe on this one.
do not force anything.

from the post:

started August. lost 10 lbs and now it is going onto Nov.
3 months on Keto Plan

next is new to lifting and taking on more exercise. Cool!!!

next is ‘there is NO issue with this person’ other than the ‘scale is not going down’ from her eyes…I mean we ALL know it takes time to change, adapt, transition, body comps change with time and adding in more muscle work and all--------------key being other than ‘this poster thinking they are not eating enough’ and ‘should eat more?’ kinda means nothing at this point in the game.

the body will show the way. Eat all you need when ya need.
We all get low food intake the more the body heals and we still change more so why ever say EAT more when we know to just ‘follow the hunger as the body wants’ at all times?

@angdilla
height and weight coming into this?
diet beforehand coming into this Keto Plan?
not worried on scale in one sentence and then it is yes I wanna see the scale go down down down and why isn’t it? :slight_smile: I know, I get ya on that one LOL

YOU ARE FINE. Eat all you need. focus on good meat protein and good meat fats first cause that is ALL the body requires for total health and survival, not one carb is required ever-------so the body absolutely wants that. Know you will go thru different appetite changes wtih your time progression on plan and how your activity level changes. EAT AS YOU feel you need til the body shows ya different…and it will!!

might have a post in a month or 2 saying ya can’t stop eating LOL cause the body is demanding it, but eat thru that in ‘smart Keto form’ also but remember, your meat/fat intake is a definite very important factor in your body’s physical well being so just think…good meat/fat first, what else can I round out on my Keto Plan that I enjoy and you will be fine truly!!!

More time on plan and how you change personally will show you truly your path forward :slight_smile: wishing you the best!

(Robin) #19

I absolutely had to force myself in the early stages when my appetite just disappeared. Otherwise, my calories were too low. However…. Once I forced myself to eat… after a few bites, I was chowing down like usual.

(Allie) #20

Yeah, you have to make sure you’re eating enough for your BMR at the very least and 900 calories just isn’t that much.