First day finished ...question?

(Di Ma) #8

Thank you, fasting is not a big problem but I’m finding the fat % hard to achieve…

(Scott) #9

Fat is not really a goal. Think of it as fat to satiety. I think the most difficult thing for someone new is to embrace healthy fats after being told for years it will clog your arteries like a kitchen sink drain. IMO 1000 calories is too low for an adult diet. Fasting is fasting but if you don’t feast in between you can mess up your metabolism.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #10

To start on keto, I’d advise not to worry much about macro percentages. That can come later as you better adapt to keto. When you eliminate carbs, you have to substitute the energy with fat. Once you cut carbs and realize you’re going to have to make up the difference with fat, you start seeing fat alternatives. There are many. I don’t know your culture, but I think you mentioned it’s ME so coconut oil, palm oil, olives and oil, fatty fish, maybe high fat dairy. Whatever it is, it’s there and you can find it.

By the way, and thanks to @ctviggen on another comment thread, I’ve expanded my own fat horizon with cacao butter. It’s one of the pure fats that tastes good enough to eat ‘as is’, so I find it easy to eat. It has a mild chocolate flavour that blends well with lots of other stuff as well.

(Shane) #11

Looks fine to me.
Remember that carbs are maximum and not a goal to reach up to.
And fat can come from your body for weight loss or diet for maintenance. Or some combination. If you aren’t hungry, why force it.
Get plenty of protein.

#12

It’s fine for a start I suppose but you might have a much quicker metabolism, it can’t be calculated so it’s sometimes seriously off.
And some of us can’t eat at a substantial deficit and should be patient, maybe making some more changes. Hopefully you won’t have such problems.

Fat percent doesn’t matter, usually. Many of us don’t have a fat limit or fat goal (too little and too much fat is bad but there is wriggle room). It’s fine if you eat less fat and more protein, to some extent, at least but too much protein probably not a concern with your calorie intake.
Our calorie intake and food choices affect the realistic fat percentage range. You doesn’t need to meet some number that makes little sense but many people loves generalization. I am all for keeping personal differences in mind and finetuning as it works better. It’s clearly bad forcing ourself to eat fat and too little protein (and other nutrients) just because our calorie intake is unusually small, for example. 75% fat is quite much, I eat my fav quite fatty protein sources with very little extra fat (I couldn’t consume much more with them) but that’s still 65-70%. There are ways to raise it but why if it’s not needed and only would cause problems? I leave specific numbers and high fat percentages for ketoers who need those for therapy or who has some other reason (high protein is bad for them or something). I like to focus on the important things.

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #13

You don’t need to try to “max” your carbs (as in trying to make sure you get your 20g).

If you haven’t seen it yet, I recommend checking this out.

Also, I have trouble getting my fat in. My personal solution has been to drink heavy cream (gives me lots of fat without too many carbs. About 80g fat & 6g carbs in 1 cup). Also, butter on veggies is good :slight_smile:

(Jack Bennett) #14

There’s no “need” to reach a fat macro unless you’re still hungry and really want to eat something.

The usual mantra is “protein is a target; carb is a limit; eat fat to satiety”.

The idea is that you want to reach your protein goal (grams per day). Protein is believed to help with satiety (see the protein leverage hypothesis).

Carbs are an upper limit because that is needed for ketosis (people usually quote 20 grams / day but you can discover your own limit through experimentation).

All the rest of your food energy comes from fat, so if you’re hungry, eat fat up to your limit. If you’re not, don’t. Don’t drive yourself crazy - if you eat a bit more one day and a bit less another day, that’s OK. Also, your hunger may vary based on activity level and other factors.

(Di Ma) #15

I wasn’t trying to max my carbs but that’s what I ended up with carbs and protein were both maxed but not the fat.
I’ll try not to worry and see how it goes in the next few days

(Di Ma) #16

Thank you :pray:

#17

Confusing, but somebody told me here that protein will also be converted to sugar for energy, so i wouldn’t max out protein, but indeed- max out fats. I would keep the proteins limited too, unless you are doing something like a carnivore diet? When I read what you are doing, I cringe a bit, because it sounds so hard. I am eating keto with a passion, but just lost 3 lbs in 1 month. That not much. But I am Ok with this because I get to enjoy my food while slowly losing the weight… Somebody else told me that it took time to gain the weight, so I am taking my time to lose it. Most of all, because I can live well this way. Eating, when older, becomes a joy in life. I don’t want to deprive myself of this very important pleasure. On keto however, I am so much less hungry and sometimes dont need any breakfast, and with that I slip into IF on some days effortlessly. And most of all - it doesnt feel like a diet, but more like a change in the way i eat without dieting. I have been through ALL the diets and gained back more. So that’s finished for me. I love this way of eating- and cauliflower rice tastes just as good as regular rice did to me. I dont feel like I am depriving myself. Thats major for me, and what makes keto so doable as a lifestyle change. So when I read how much eifort and willpower you need to invest to maintain under 1000 cal/day, it just sounds so tedious. Why not do keto and find out that you slip into less calories and IF all on your own without force?

(Di Ma) #18

I’m not trying to be under 1000 calories, I ate when I was hungry and satisfied My hunger , after that I was not hungry
I am not putting too much effort , I’m actually enjoying the time I cook my meal and eat it. I just didn’t feel like eating more than that on my first day

#19

@Di_Ma
Oh well thats great then!
Welcome to the forum!

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #20

@Chantarella

#21

@amwassil
So then why are we told that in this WOE we are supposed to follow the formula: 65% fat, 25% protein and the rest carbs?

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #22

Maybe, because it’s easier to work with % rather than fixed numbers.

But using % a person eating 1500 calories and someone eating 2500 calories would have different numbers.

Personally, I’m aiming more for 80-90%, minimal carbs (under 20g net) and the rest protein. But I’m in a more extreme situation.

(Mark Nelson) #23

The original ketogenic diet was developed in 1923 for treatment of epilepsy and it’s protocol was 90% of calories from fat, 6% from protein and 4% from carbs. [https://charliefoundation.org/classic-keto/]

Generally the macros used a a guideline for those starting out in keto most likely came from the Atkins diet which generally used the 60% fat, 30% protein and 10% carbohydrate as guidelines for starting.

#24

@Marknel
I am asking because of the article about how limiting proteins doesnt matter. I have bought books on keto and I am advised to eat most of my calories in fats. It says that if one raises the level of proteins then the weight loss formula won’t work. So what’s true?

(Shane) #25

No one has ever told me that. Why would “they”? The only requirement is to eat in a way that puts you into ketosis. In the past, my deepest ketosis has been while eating 100% carbs, no protein or fat.
I started Last Dec by cutting high carb food and doing occasional 3 or 4 day fasts. I passed 30lb weight loss some time in January. I went keto in Apr to compliment the fasts. I went carnivore a few months ago.
Now over 100lb down. I’ve never used an app or formulas. My body tells me what it wants, not an app.

#26

I don’t know about others but for me it’s easier to work with grams especially that they aren’t fixed and anyway, they make way more sense. Our body has its needs in grams, not in percentages. Just because I eat less, my protein need doesn’t drop significantly so in some cases these percentages must be off. And for carbs, we really need grams.

65% fat is just right for me now (of course, I need some wriggle room but 65-70% usually works) but it should be lower or higher for some others and I need to raise it later. Taste, protein need, calorie intake and other factors matter a lot. Even low-fat keto may work for a while if someone can get away with very little food or high protein… Some people prefers that. Each to their own.

I never heard about 65/25/10 but 10% carbs surely wouldn’t work for most of us. And why would we need to eat so much carbs (if we are able to stay in ketosis with that amount) or so low calorie? It would totally ruin the diet for many of us, without a good reason. It would be super restrictive and stressful. And not everyone is willing or able to track anyway. My meat has no label with its fat content, it’s a mystery to a pretty big extent. But if fixed percentages work for someone, their prerogative to use those, of course.

But it doesn’t make sense for all. There is therapeutic keto, there must be people who prefers fixed percentages and there are zillion ketoers who should find their own percentages or grams or not even worrying about the whole thing, potentially including tracking. I honestly couldn’t care less about my percentages until I feel right, eat well, get my nutrients and if everything goes well, slowly lose fat. When I track, I use grams but it doesn’t matter exactly how many grams I eat from fat or protein especially if it’s for a single day. I don’t have fixed grams but pretty wide ranges except for carbs, of course. Fixed numbers couldn’t work but they would make nothing better anyway.

I don’t know what the weight loss formula is but weight loss is quite personal. My fat-loss doesn’t require even keto, I just need to eat little enough, ketosis doesn’t change how little (it just makes it less impossible). Others have wildly different experiences, their body works a bit differently. I still wouldn’t do insanely high protein and I don’t know anyone who eats low-fat protein and not much else. It sounds very wrong but fortunately it’s very easy to have fat as our main energy source, especially on keto. It allows high protein… I eat significantly over my protein need with 30% protein and 68% fat… But it’s not high enough for me to worry about. I would do that with 50% fat or 4000 kcal (more like I would make sure I eat fattier somehow)…

I probably carried away again. I am quite against fixed percentages for all, it’s so silly.

#27

The % = approx 20g carbs.

All I know is that I started keto with keto books and this is what they say. I am not carnivore and I don`t intend to fast for 4 days, or anything along those extreme lines - just “simply keto” as one of the books I bought is titled. I am doing keto and this is what it says to do. It gets very confusing when everybody adamantly professes to eat another way. I congratulate you, Shane, on your 100 lb weight loss. Thats great and totally amazing. But I want to continue eating and lose gently.