Fire in a Bottle - The ROS Theory of Obesity and The Proton Theory


(PJ) #41

I don’t think stearic is an MCT.

I’ve been drinking CB w/cacoa in a big coffee each day and it’s wonderfully satiating. It might be no better than if I made it with butter or coconut oil. But I don’t like the taste of the first or the texture of the second. Cocoa butter works much better, the texture and taste are both much nicer.



Oh! So a MC fatty acid is different than a MC triglyceride? Hmmm, if that’s the case there goes my brain fuel theory to describe the wonders of CB in my coffee.

I looked it up. Fatty acids make up the bulk of a triglyceride molecule, and , although fatty acids and triglycerides are closely related, they differ in structure, function and the manner in which your body processes them.

Does this rule out MC FA beneficial impact on the brainz though?

Cocoa Butter sure is satiating. AND super tasty to me - unlike beef fat.

(PJ) #43

I hadn’t even noticed that and I’m the one who posted it :laughing: That explains why you commented on it

I… am a little confused now about MCT and SFA and and and … ok probably about more than that. :roll_eyes:

I’m getting some tallow real soon (friend is buying me some and having it sent to me, yay! since I’m stupidly poor right now) and I have heard it’s not the greatest flavor… but I recall McD used to make their french fries in tallow and it was delicious. So, not sure what to make of that.

I would be interested in a research study that compares french fries in tallow vs. whatever McD uses now. I’m willing to bet there is a major health difference despite it being high carb.

The anti-meat anti-fat puritans caused McD (and everyone else) to make that shift. Probably contributed to the wreckage of national health esp. as fast food was exploding in quantity intake.

Trivia as I sort through searches on my questions above:

Shea butter is edible and is used in food preparation in some African countries. Occasionally, shea butter is mixed with other oils as a substitute for cocoa butter, although the taste is noticeably different.


Unrefined shea butter is an all-natural, vegan-friendly butter and lard substitute that can be used in baked goods – or just spread on toast.


some chocolate makers use shea butter instead of or alongside cocoa butter as an ingredient in their products to make their chocolate creamier and to give it a rich taste.

Stir fry dishes are given more flavor and a richer taste when cooked in shea butter. Another popular way to eat it is to put a tablespoon or so of shea butter into a smoothie. This will help make your smoothie creamy and give it a boost of antioxidants and healthy essential fatty acids

the last two are from someone selling the stuff, fwiw

I think shea butter must taste gross because extensive searching finds not a single food recipe, merely a couple that suggest that you could add some in a blend to cocoa butter but that it tastes very ‘different.’

However the search, by sheer accident it seems (or people named Shea!) did find me nice recipes for Low Carb Hot Chocolate, Low Carb White Chocolate Butter Pecan Fat Bombs, Low Carb Milk Chocolate Bar, and Keto Alfredo. None of which have shea butter. None of which except the alfredo qualify as ‘food’ in my book, but that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be delicious!

I love the internet. The patronizing filters/bias of the search engines now and corporate sites having most the power in them has reduced this a lot from the old days I admit, but I have always appreciated the ability of the web to have me go out searching for something totally obscure (refinishing wood) and end up reading poems about someone’s cat. It’s like an external version of the free-association my brain does naturally.



Yes, I agree that the search engines and corporate sites influencing search results is quite a lot of bias/filter. For those who don’t know how to work around them, it’s quite a marketing frenzy (and don’t get me started on the horrible filter/bias of Wikipedia). Yep, I relate about the brain’s free association and the speedy ease of info superhighway research. I also really love actual reference sections of libraries and paging through 3 dimensional books n’ such. :nerd_face:

Re tallow & fries, I think Nina Teicholz covered the topic in her book The Big Fat Surprise - the change away from tallow does correlate with the public health crises. Also - the way McD’s makes them “taste good” is by using… SUGAR, in the prepared potato mush and the coating spray. Which also hooks people addiction-wise.

That shea butter info is fascinating - I’ve never seen it listed as an ingredient in chocolate, but makes sense that it would add creaminess. That quality seems to be a thing with stearic acid, creaminess!

In reflecting on the wonderful cacao butter effect and the fact that it’s not because of MCTs… at first I thought it must be the PEA, at a very diluted subtle dose. So I went researching it and was reminded that raw cacao has SEVERAL neurotransmitters and brain-energizing alkaloids - as well as incredibly high levels of anti-oxidants! Raw Cacao has neurotransmitters AND the chemicals necessary to ensure these neurotransmitters are absorbed into the body and reach the brain - so, it’s quite a resource compared to straight stearic acid, etc. This explains the lovely brain rainbows I was having with CB in my coffee lolol.

This is some serious brain food, and hormone-balancing, depression-relieving, and generally enhancing food. It figures, judging by how colorful and amazing the cacao beans are!

So, the neurotrophic benefits + satiety + bodyfat burning boosting makes this quite a medicine. And from that perspective, it justifies spending $25 a month if one can, with the added benefit of making fat-fasting super easy and thus minimizing groceries (for those who have lots of body fat energy to tap), plus speeding along hormonal healing.

And, just fyi, I saw that the USDA is rolling out a new program with Amazon foods (starting just with the state of NY) to start allowing people with EBT/SNAP benefits to use them to buy food - however the eligible “food” is comprised of cheap processed junk for the most part - doubtful that one can get CB or any good fats that way anyway

(PJ) #45

The USDA SNAP program currently allows people to shop at farmer’s markets, and it even allows them to buy seeds and food plants there, which I think is cool.

I am not gardening right now but I’m a gardening freak. I have a ton of aeroponic cloning and hydroponic gardening and 78K Lux LED lights in the back room waiting for me to get off my ass and paint the room with the moisture/mold protective paint. And figure out where the heck to put all the stuff currently IN the room, sigh. Honestly I’d have more room in my house if my entire living/dining area was not a home gym. :roll_eyes:

Interesting on the cocoa stuff. Today I did only one mini-fluted-cup with the CB+C and added 2 of the kisses with the plain CB to the coffee. Still wonderful, still a Hot Keto Mocha. The only problem is if I drink it within ~3 hours of when I want to eat I don’t feel like eating. So today I think I had half a tiny bowl of chili with a tiny bit of cheese, and 2 protein drinks later just to make sure I got some protein in (they are easy at hand in the fridge).

(PJ) #46

Since you seem so fond of it…
This is cocoa butter based and could probably mix a little shea in too

(I have the recipe in more detail if you wish)

Seemed like a lovely experiment.
It’ll be quite some time before I’m making desserts or fat bombs again – I’m busy dropping water weight from my holiday-off – but I might actually try that one.


(Bob M) #47

I’ve experienced such a marked decrease in hunger by using cocoa butter or a combination of butter/cocoa butter/shea butter in 1:1:1 ratios (no theory behind the ratios, just easy to measure), that I’m going to preorder the “butter” and stearic acid on the Fire in a Bottle website. I’m going to learn to make croissants (hopefully with Einkorn wheat if possible) and serve these to my kids. That’s how convinced I am about this. (Not sure I’ll eat the croissants myself; we’ll see.)

Put it this way, if the maximum “not hungry” signal I have is say 7 out of 10 (and this usually occurs for me when eating high protein and not high fat), when I add cocoa butter to my first/lunchtime meal, my “not hungry” signal is 11. I’m serious: It’s off the freaking charts. In fact, I only eat dinner because other people are eating. Yesterday, as a case in point, I would not have eaten dinner at all, except we had the neighbors, who sold their house and are moving, over. Otherwise, I was so freaking full, I would not have eaten. (Once I start eating, though, I have a meal, though it’s usually reduced in size.)

(Bob M) #48

When you have time, put out that recipe. I usually try to avoid sweet-tasting things (gave up fat bombs 1+ years ago), but I would try these now, especially if I can get my kids to eat them.

(PJ) #49

I have a bag of einkhorn wheat. I had been curious to try it after reading a ton of reviews by people saying that they (or someone in their family) was very reactive to wheat but not this one at all, and reading about the genetic difference in this vs. modern wheat. I don’t eat enough carbs except in December to put anything carby in my diet like that, I just wanted to experiment. Forgot about it entirely until your post.

That’s really interesting that the butter combo is working that well for you. What are you putting it in/on? Are you melting it together first? What does shea taste like?


(Bob M) #50

I think what works best is just cocoa butter, using my limited testing so far.

I have been testing things since I was 16, and I’m 55. I have no problems eating things most people can’t or won’t. So, I simply eat the cocoa butter or eat the combination of fats. I think the combination of fats works well too, but I realize he’s using ghee instead of butter. I may have to go to that combination, as I’m sure ghee has more stearic acid than butter, since butter is a lot of water.

I have been cooking Einkorn for years, since I wanted something for my kids I could make on holidays. I have sourdough starter that I’ve been feeding every week for the last 5+ years. As far as problems it causes, I have not noticed anything. Meanwhile, regular pizza causes me chest congestion the next day.

(PJ) #51

This is cool, look what I found

(PJ) #52

Yeah that is the effect wheat has on me as well. Or did for many many years… and then finally started having body-wide inflammation that mostly hit me in the night, so I’d wake up feeling like I was hit by a truck or something. But asthma (lung flegm) is the primary result.

I think I’m going to try using melted coconut oil in place of butter in a typical baked lowcarb recipe tomorrow and see what the result is.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #53

Too bad they didn’t list the carbs. Curious why the source would list nutrients per 1 oz (28.35 gr) but list the actual nutrient numbers in grams. If the numbers are actually correct, ie they understood what they were doing, then multiply the listed numbers by 3.53 to get the per 100 grams of cheese totals.

(PJ) #54

Listing things by 1oz is common in the USA – the USDA website for example has nearly everything by either 100g (the UK common label) or by 1oz and then some other options. All my personal tracking spreadsheets do everything by oz. Even though I often calculate the change to grams when I’m working with it.

Edited: oh, I missed the ref to carbs. I can probably find one that has that. My own list is great it just doesn’t have satfat numbers. Maybe I’ll just add those to mine (via USDA not this image) and post a pic of that here instead.

(PJ) #55

(Justin Jordan) #56

Welcome to the US.

Basically every label has the weight of the serving size in ounces (with grams if you’re lucky, but often not) and the macros in grams.

Which makes sense, as it goes. Recipes and such still often use ounces, but trying to do macros in ounces with any precision would be crazy making.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #57

I live in Vancouver, Canada, but am originally from the US. The rest of my family lives in the US. I am quite familiar with the American system of measures. As much as I dislike much of the metric system generally, for measuring and weighing food and calculating nutrients, grams beats the American system by a mile and a half for convenience, accuracy and common sense. In Canada we use both the metric and Imperial systems. The US system was based more or less on the Imperial system.

(Justin Jordan) #58

Believe me, for recipes and nutritional purposes I am metric all the way.

(PJ) #59

Yeah, my tracking sheet stuff is in oz but when I’m writing down a recipe I always use gram weight. That began because so many online buddies were outside the US but continued because it’s really the only way you can be truly exact about anything.

I’m not eating enough the last few days and I swear I think it’s the bleeping coffee with cocoa butter that I’ve taken up drinking daily. That’s actually not good – I want to eat enough – I just keep forgetting about food until it’s so late I don’t want to eat and figure I’ll just pick it up tomorrow.


PJ, my understanding is that fat fasting can be done for up to two weeks w/o medical supervision (and longer with medical supervision). Dr. Atkins recommended fat fasting for various situations, and Dr. Fung allows for fat fasting as well. Dana Carpender wrote a couple little books on it - basically you eat enough fat to fuel the brain, eat nearly zero carbs & protein and allow the body to draw on its own fat stores.

Protein isn’t a concern for long while with obese and morbidly obese folks. There was one morbidly obese fellow who fasted for a couple months even (medically supervised of course, not recommended to do that without it). Point is that natural satiety-based fasting in the morbidly obese can be a good thing provided electrolytes and minerals are plentiful - fasting days/weeks must be interspersed with feasting days/weeks etc (perhaps with less CB to allow for an appetite lol).

More about that in Fung’s book The Obesity Code, and the IDM website.