Finally get the ketone high

(Masterp77557 ) #1

Long time lurker on the site and reading many comments from the users here. I began my Ketogenic Diet/Low Carb in 2018 and since then never looked back. At the moment I am on a Low Carb & intermittent fasting diet. I am perhaps not as strict as I could be with my diet and never really was except for the initially fat adaptation period where i was under 50gms. My carb count ranges from 50 to 80 grams per day. But I also intermittent fast for 18 hours and eat for a 6-hour window. I have done 5 day fast before but never got this euphoria.

I have also been trying to bring out the so-called euphoria that many people feel on Keto/ fasting.

I read a few topics here on the forum, however one particularly caught my eye.

No longer feeling Euphoria on Keto
Keto and euphoria

This topic made me wonder if I had been doing on the wrong things whilst on keto. I do have dessert with erythritol and stevia. Sometimes with xylitol but that is rare. Could this be the reason why I am not getting that euphoric feeling? I am trying to give this up along with eating cleaner.

Another thing is I never measure protein in my diet because I got the impression that gluconeogenesis was a demand driven process. For this reason I didnā€™t think there would be a problem. I also didnā€™t think protein will kick me out of ketosis or affect my diet, but there seems to be much debate about this in the community.

Any opinions?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

If itā€™s any consolation, Iā€™ve been eating a ketogenic diet for four years and have never felt euphoric.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #3

I never experienced any Big Changeā„¢. Certainly never euphoria. Maybe itā€™s inversely proportional to how debilitated and how long by SAD one was prior. Just a guess.

(Masterp77557 ) #4

Well we are on the same boat then lol

(Masterp77557 ) #5

it could very well beā€¦how strict are you?

(Masterp77557 ) #6

how strict are you?

(Joey) #7

Euphoric? Well, perhaps not THAT happy. But since going keto 2 yrs ago I now usually feel like a VERY happy camper every day :crazy_face:

Anyhow, you seem to feel a bit unsettled about how ā€œstrictā€ others might be with their keto-WOE in comparison to what youā€™re doing. FWIW, I consume about 25g of daily net carbs (derived from extraneous sources).

So now Iā€™m curiousā€¦ what are you eating that introduces carbs at 50-80g/day? The specific carbs youā€™re eating might have a lot to do with things.

#8

I always thought these are individual, I still think so :slight_smile:
I never got euphoria (well I felt great on day #6 or something but thatā€™s it, never again and it wasnā€™t extreme), high energy, I have no idea what is the mental clarity people talk aboutā€¦ And I didnā€™t lose fat because I still get hungry and eat a lotā€¦
I got fat adaptation and lost my water weight changes.
Carnivore or close to it is special in my case, my attitude to food definitely changes but no euphoria, high energy etc.

In my first on/off keto years I ate 40g net carbs on keto, now itā€™s 5-20g.
I am out of ketosis at 50g net, at least that was the case last time I tried to figure it out. Itā€™s hard as I feel about the same in and out of ketosis, there are subtle signs under certain circumstances but they are not fully reliable. Weight changes helped in the first years but not anymore. But as I donā€™t get benefits just being in ketosis, only if I drop my carbs, I donā€™t care, I go lower.

It doesnā€™t seem sweeteners matter in my case (unless I go too high with my net carbs I presume but I donā€™t eat that much sweetener). I used to eat sweets every day on keto, I obviously donā€™t do it when I do carnivore (or super close to it) but I experimented with very low net carbs with sweeteners lately, nothing seemed to change.
But itā€™s me, others have problems with them. Or with some of them.

My energy do seem to be a bit better if I keep my carbs very low (itā€™s not all about one number though, 20g is suberb if it comes from eggs and liver and total carbs never seemed to matter to me, only the net) but eu[phoria? I donā€™t even believe thatā€™s a thing, itā€™s so strange and why would want that from my woe? Though itā€™s always nice to feel great for a hedonistā€¦ But there are so many other ways :slight_smile: I get it from sunshine and itā€™s interesting that my energy dropped when I lacked sunshine but this stopped on extremely low net carbsā€¦ So strictness has something to do with my energyā€¦

I donā€™t think protein is a problem. Everything I have read in the last years, experiences of me and others shows this - but some people are able to overeat protein. We all have a higher limit to protein, no wonder, we have a fatal amount of water intake too, most of us just never reach it even if we eat protein galore. I never had problems with my unnecessarily high protein intake - and I canā€™t comfortably eat less protein so itā€™s easy to decide what to do. I canā€™t measure ketones or blood sugar or anything but I never ate only adequate protein for several days in row and I reached fat adaptation just fine as far as I can tell but I got very convincing signsā€¦
But one can experiment with the fat/protein ratio and grams to figure out what works bestā€¦ I have a smallish wriggle room due to my items and taste and how my satiation works. I eat high protein and more fat than protein in average but various ratios seem to work, at least temporarily. I heard about many people who preferred a narrow range or had odd limits for fat or protein, there are therapeutic ratiosā€¦

#9

You would be correct! The euphoric feeling is usually only at the beginning, I donā€™t know if itā€™s high ketones or your just not being used to running on them, only time I ever get that is multi-day fasts (which I no longer do) or exogenous ketones. Definitely a cool feeling, but I also get it from Kratom which is way cheaper!

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #10

Yesterdayā€™s meals, for example:

Dayā€™s summary
Meal 1
Meal 2
Meal 3

Note: I generally try to keep each meal at my current macros which are: 1.48 : 1 fat : protein grams and 3.33 : 1 fat : protein calories. The past several days I have not done so because of various reasons, but have kept the daily totals at the macros. Sometimes I eat a little more or less of fat and/or protein at a meal and make up the difference at a later meal. For example, meal one for yesterday was my daily keto coffee and a block of cream cheese. I would normally also eat either bacon bits or roast beef to bring the ratios back down but didnā€™t. I think I was planning to eat a lot of protein later in the day.

If youā€™ve been eating 50-80 grams of carbs per day, I question that youā€™ve been in ketosis at all. I consider ketosis to be the natural and most healthy metabolic state to be in. I have started several topics in the forum discussing and describing the healthful benefits of ketosis. So my goal is to remain consistently in ketosis. I recommend the same to everyone.

(Masterp77557 ) #11

Thanks for reply.

yes my current diet does range between 50-80 but thats because i follow a more primal/paleo type diet. My girlfriend loves it and it allowed me a bit more freedom to eat things that i like. however i am considering going back to keto. When i follow it strictly i am able to sleep less and feel better the next morning.

(Masterp77557 ) #12

do you notice that you sleep less but feel more rested when you are stricter?

(Masterp77557 ) #13

yes currently i eat 50-80 but in the early days, i did eat less than 50 grams. In fact it was closer to less than 25 grams. but i was really strict and began to do omad as well. then i met my gf who is a foodie and loves to eat good food. So because of that i adjusted to a more primal or paleo way of eating.

(Amy the Silly Sausage šŸŒ­) #14

I started keto early last year and on about day 7 I experienced a weird euphoria, all colours were really bright and vivid, I felt like I was tripping. This was from keeping total carbs under 20g, but it only lasted a few hours. Due to health problems I stopped keto for a few months but restarted again 6 weeks ago. No euphoria this time and I NEVER have had the high energy people talk about on keto, I donā€™t know why because I am super strict. I usually do between 7 to 15g total carbs each day I donā€™t really have sweetness, well it is rare. I sometimes ( according to my carb manager app) go over on protein but that also is rare. I sleep but never feel rested, infact i am always exhausted but I was before keto as well so I canā€™t blame keto on this. I lost quite a bit of weight on keto last year and I was so fat adapted that I never gained it all back. Like you I do intermittent fasting, I am OMAD and I donā€™t know if Iā€™m doing something wrong or Iā€™m just a tired person naturally. My advice would be if your looking for euphoria maybe switch things up, lower your carbs to under 20grams for a few days and see if that helps. Carnivore is great for limiting carbs, I was carnivore last year and do it on and off, but I love my tomato and lettuce and sometimes for something sweet I will eat a keto protein bar, but not everyday.:slightly_smiling_face: Everyone is different and just see how you goā€¦Maybe stop the artificial sweetners for a few days and see if that makes a difference. My Mum got endless energy and euphoria on keto and I seem to not ketogenically take after her.:roll_eyes: Good luck.

(Masterp77557 ) #15

very impressive diet sample.

do you eat desserts with this? and if so do you use artificial sweetners?

second question, with your calories hovering around 2500+ calories, are you able to workout and build strength. do you feel sufficient energy?

i noticed your avatar, are you a cyclist?

(Joey) #16

Interesting ā€¦ not being aware of the details, can you clarify where most of those 50-80g of carbs are coming from? Are you referring to total carbs, or perhaps net carbs after subtracting associated fiber? Iā€™m curious as to why a primal/paleo diet would be higher in carbs than a more general ā€œketoā€ WOE.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #17

Everything I eat is in the spreadsheets. I donā€™t eat ā€˜dessertsā€™ and donā€™t particularly like ā€˜sweetā€™. I drink Red Bull Zero and/or Sugar Free occasionally which contain sucralose; one of the two whey protein powders I use also contains sucralose and stevia. So I consume these in very small amounts.

Iā€™m 76 years old and I donā€™t ā€˜work outā€™. I have a full-time job at Walmart that requires me to stand and walk lots during shifts, no sitting allowed on the sales floor. The job also entails lifting and carrying mostly stacks of shopping baskets and sometimes heavier stuff like boxes of plastic bags that weigh about ~50 pounds. My tasks also involve lots of customer and staff interaction, so itā€™s emotionally demanding as well. Yes, I am tired at the end of my work shifts.

I walk a lot. Always have. I was a middle distance runner in my youth and young adult years, so Iā€™ve always gravitated towards self-propelled travel as much as practicable. Yes, I am a cyclist and built my own recumbent bicycle. I will admit, though, that working full-time at Walmart I donā€™t have much time nor energy left to do much cycling recently. So I am trying to figure out how to get back into it more.

I base my energy intake on whether or not I maintain my weight. If I lose I know to eat more, if I gain I know to eat less. Same macros. Although Iā€™ve modded my macros from time to time. Most recently, nearly a year ago, I upped protein because I felt like I wanted to eat more of it. My body comp does not change - 14-15% BF. I am lean and have been all my life. Eating fat and protein wonā€™t change it. Only eating carbs would do so.

#18

No, I always wake up very low-energy, not being able to do much for hours. Itā€™s a personal thing. I am not a morning person, to put it lightly, I have most energy in the evening.
I am a bit better on carnivore and I appreciate that as I often was a dying zombie in the mornings before. Now I am a normal zombie :smiley: But the only really big change is that I donā€™t nearly lose consciousness and get moody when I donā€™t get sunshineā€¦ Thatā€™s cool.
I sleep as much as before, maybe my need did go down a bit but itā€™s hard to tell as itā€™s very hard for me to get up so I easily sleep more than needed. I suspect my late bedtime doesnā€™t help things either.

I donā€™t think our woe can dramatically change our sleep needs unless we slept abnormally much before.

#19

Because it doesnā€™t limit carbs and there are so many carby items allowed? When I started paleo, I ate high-carb. Other people automatically eat low-carb or even extreme low-carb, of course. I was into vegetables very much and they are carby while itā€™s easy to eat a ton of them (it was for me, at least).

I am curious what the OP eats too :slight_smile: But 50-80g is very little, itā€™s very easy to get from veggies and oily seeds alone, was there, done that (I hardly can even stay below this if I eat them in not tiny amounts)ā€¦ And there are fruits, paleo starchesā€¦

(Joey) #20

Ah, thanks for the additional info. I think of ā€œpaleo/primalā€ as being fairly close to carnivore (which I assume has minimal carbs). My misunderstanding of the terminology. :face_with_hand_over_mouth: