Few questions from a newbie

(Drew) #1

Graduated high school at 165, took steroids on and off for 3 years like and idiot and here I am. 5’11, 240lbs. 41 years old. Former athlete, battled weight for the last 10 years or so. As high as 261 (fought in a BJJ tourney) and as low as 214. I carry it ok, largerbuild, I had abs at 195 so my goal weight is 200. I lost 30+lbs twice in the past decade, once on Nutrisystem believe it or not and once on isagenic. Just started keto one week ago today. Not just for weight loss but my glucose went from 81 to 93 to 96 in the past 18 months, 100 is prediabetic. I poked around here for some answers and other resources around the net but I seem to get conflicted responses on these 3 topics so figured I’d ask and see if I can get some 1 to 1 insight.

My experience so far … I have been below 23g of carbs every day for 6 straight days. Fat around 100g and protein around 130g, calories around 1800. I bought Ketoburn PX and the test strips. Zero ketones for the first 5 days and I actually gained a pound. Then I made an adjustment, knocked the protein back by 50g, upped the fat to 130g… day 6 I pissed ketones and lost 2lbs woohoo! Protein thing could be coincidence? So here are my questions…

  1. I have always been a protein junkie so whenever I want to drop weight I immediately think high protein. I’ve read too much protein can prevent ketosis but also read a few interesting articles that suggested it doesn’t matter. On Thursday I took in 175g of protein but have been hovering around 130g. Too much?

  2. Brcause I became a fatass, my LDL and overall cholesterol is high I think 220 for the latter? I’ve read keto can help lower cholesterol over time but also read, and it makes sense, that since it’s such high fat, lots of meat, etc. Its inevitable that my cholesterol will actually go up. Thoughts?

  3. Are the ketone supplements like Ketoburn total BS? I get totally conflicting reports.

Thanks in advance!

D

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #2

“Too much protein” depends on whom you’re listening to. Dr. Ted Naiman says there’s no such thing. Prof. Bikman says don’t fear protein (not the same thing). Dr. Phinney, Dr. Westman, and our own 2 Dudes recommend something in the neighborhood of 1.0-1.5 g/day/kg of lean body mass. Don’t worry about it, just do what works for you.

Ignore cholesterol altogether. It is an essential part of your cell walls, and the precursor to many important hormones, testosterone not least among them. If you really care about cholesterol, eat saturated fat to bring up your HDL and worry only about your triglyceride/HDL level. Or as I said, ignore it altogether. The most accurate assessment of your cardiovascular condition would be a coronary artery calcium scan (CAC).

There are uses for exogenous ketones, but mostly they are useful for increasing the value of your urine. For metabolic health, eating in a way that promotes the formation of endogenous ketones has far more value.

Keep your carbs under 20 g/day, and the rest is more in the nature of tweaking. Eat real foods, don’t fear saturated fat, fear polyunsaturates instead. You know how they have been telling us to eat for the last fifty years? Eat exactly the opposite, and you’ll be fine. :bacon::bacon:

(Frank) #3

The more food you eat that doesn’t have a label at all the better off you’ll be. Keto this keto that. Save your money and buy as high quality meats and vegetables as you can reasonably afford. Don’t sweat the protein grams. Just keep those carbs low and you’ll be gold. And for heavens sake eat!!! Your stated amounts above add up to about 1400-1500 calories. For your size and the phase your in (pre fat adapted) I’d guess your minimum requirement would be more like 20 carb 180 fat and 150 protein = 2300 kcal. Everyone’s different I realize but don’t force a calorie deficit right out of the chute. That may prove to be counterproductive and unsustainable. That lower intake comes naturally later on in the fat adapted phase where your body is able to use a significant portion of its fat (fuel) requirements from your body. So down the road maybe your diet looks more like 20 g carbs, 150g protein, and 100 g or less from dietary fat.

(Carl Keller) #4

I can tell you that eating protein and fat until I was no longer hunger (not stuffed) worked just fine for me. I lost 40 pounds in five months probably averaging 130 grams per day and I am the same height as you. I will say that I never ate to reach a certain number. I just went with how I felt and that’s where the number ended up. I honestly think you lowering your protein and noticing ketones in your urine shortly thereafter, might just be a coincidence.

Most likely your HDL will go up, your trigs will go down and your LDL may or may not rise some. All of that will possibly inflate your total cholesterol. Just realize that it’s becoming increasingly clear that high cholesterol isn’t as ominous as it seems. Many informed experts and cardiologists understand that heart disease is cause by inflammation, not high cholesterol. One of cholesterol’s jobs is to repair the problems that are caused by inflammation in the arteries and lowering it is like firing firefighters because they are always present at fires. The bottom line is that it’s not uncommon for people with “healthy” cholesterol numbers (less than 200 total) to end up in emergency rooms with heart attacks.

There’s a lot information about why the cholesterol hypothesis is wrong and I encourage you to some of your own research to come to your own conclusions. Here’s on article that lays it out pretty good:

Maybe, maybe not. I’m old school when it comes to diet and nutrition. I think the human species has done just fine for the past 200,000 years without pills and powders. So unless you have something physically wrong with you that inhibits your ability to absord a certain something, then I think you are better off getting everything you need from whole, single item foods.

(Drew) #5

Thanks guys this is awesome. Happy to hear that general concensus is eating more protein is unlikely to stall me. I love my protein.

Also thanks for the cholesterol 411, I’ve been poking around and the science behind it being “not as bad as we’ve been told” is fascinating.

Frank - 10 years of crash diets and maybe even the T3 I messed with back in college could be working alongside age here but if I take in over 2,000 calories I gain weight. Doesnt seem to matter if its its 2,000 calories in a pound of chocolate or 240 cups of lettuce. Its baffling. Itsok though I’ve managed to build up some discipline when motivated so <1800 isnt hard. I realize I’m probably ly compounding the problem though by punishing my metabolism into an even slower state of submission so I’ll take any advice you got there.

Lastly, I forgot to mention the booze. Both times I lost large chunks of weight I drank almost every day. Usually a Jack and diet or two each night. Sometimes enough to kill a small horse on the weekends. I did stop drinking Tuesday-Friday this week which also could have helped jumpstart keto. Thoughts on alcohol? I read the keto creators story and apparently he was almost as much of a lush as I am.

P.s. i never drink beer. Always whiskey with a diet or no mixer, sometimes red wine.

(Scott) #6

Scotch, they put the water in when they make it.

(Drew) #7

So here is where I’m at for anyone who cares; almost two weeks in, feel bloated and fat still, exactly the same weight. I will say I seem to be sleeping better so that’s a positive.

I cut the drinking way back, only 1 or 2 glasses of whiskey (neat) maybe 3 nights in the past 10ish days.

The ONLY glimpse of hope I’ve had that this is working in any way shape or form is when I cut the protein back that one day. The following day was the only time I dropped weight and pissed ketones. Not a hint of a ketone in the past 5 days (according to the strips). I’m sure I’m doing something wrong, so I may try reducing the protein again. Here are my macros for the past few days;

Yesterday
19g Carbs
87g Fat
156g Protein
1625 Calories

Tuesday
24g Carbs
117g Fat
143g Protein
1748 Calories

Monday
23g Carbs
136g Fat
199g Protein
2194 Calories

Sunday
24g Carbs
92g Fat
183g Protein
1970 Calories

Here are my macro targets based on my inputs in the Carb Manager app:

23g Carbs
130g Fat
135g Protein
1800 calories

I did go 1g over my carbs on those two days, could that be the difference? Is it not enough fat? Too much protein?

#8

IMO the alcohol isn’t helping you. Your liver is taxed with clearing that first, right? Maybe once you get fat adapted and well on your way you could tolerate a drink or two? Also, are you counting those alcohol calories since you’re tracking calories?

(Drew) #9

Absolutely, in fact, if it wasn’t for alcohol I’d be well under calories Sunday and Monday