Feeling "high" with high readings?

(Bunny) #10

Keep in mind half of that is water weight (as you may already know) and to keep potassium, sodium and magnesium levels optimal while doing keto! Don’t mistake that “elated/high feeling” for a deficiency?

(Jay AM) #11

Unless you’ve made a specific topic sharing your science on high ketones meaning that one isn’t burning body fat, then the search function isn’t a solution here. You’d remember how to find your own posts on the topic whereas anyone else will be looking for needles in haystacks. If you have made a specific topic, I haven’t located it.

The one thing I can agree with is that coconut oil and MCT oil convert to ketones quickly and well. This of course doesn’t mean utilization. But, someone fasting can have quite high ketone levels at random and, in the absence of coconut oil due to fasting, they are definitely burning body fat.

This is why chasing ketone numbers isn’t a great down pat science. People are individual and have different tolerances, metabolism, etc. You could consider cutting out the coconut oil and see if that helps with the high feeling.

(Erica Ramirez) #12

Yeah, and probably more for me, I retain water so badly when I eat carbs/sugar
So today was a good day, food wise 68g protein, 54g fat, 18 net carbs. No MCT (coconut oil). Started feeling like I was “high ketones” so I just tested (should be done eating for the day). 3.7 ketone reading and 84 glucose. Ugh. So, I am going to eat something to get back into the fat burning ketone level instead of starvation? Theraputic? level (have seen it called both online). Thats my main question, would I still be burning the same amount of fat at a 3.7 and 2.9? Or is it fine/better go be higher (speaking only of weight loss)

(Bunny) #13

I have researched this to death and know enough about this to explain it in a nutshell; it is left to the person to do their own research to figure out what I am talking about is true and correct? You probably have no idea how long it would take to figure out the science of this without my two cents!

Not only that I could provide a laundry list of sources and research to back up every word I’m explaining within seconds!

(Ron) #14

I don’t know how scientific but interesting none the less.

(LeeAnn Brooks) #15

It sounds like you are timing your feedings to your ketone testing results.

I think you’re placing too much emphasis on these numbers. There’s only one basic question. Are you in ketosis or not. In the early stages before you are fat adapted, the ketones will mostly be wasted, so it won’t matter if you change up whether you consume MCT oil or not.
A dip in ketones will take place naturally once you become fat adapted. The best way to that is to stick to less than 20g carbs, moderate protein and eat fat to satiety. Try not to snack and it doesn’t hurt to get some exercise if you feel up to it. But chasing numbers is pointless.

(Jay AM) #16

It seems this is a trend for you when someone asks for sources. You become evasive or share none and then pull out your “trust me I know what I’m talking about” schtick. All I asked for was what information you had available and find it unfortunate that all you wanted to do was be defensive.

This whole forum is about sharing information. I wasn’t rude, I didn’t attack you in my request and simply wanted to read your sources for myself. I didn’t realize that my request would be so unreasonable. I will end this particular discussion here and not respond to you further so as not to continue derailing this topic.

(karen) #17

Just out of curiosity - this is for everyone, not just keto mom, why is 2.9 the best for weight loss?

(Bunny) #18
  1. Optimal ketone and blood sugar levels for ketosis:
  1. Will monitoring my blood sugars help me enter ketosis?
  1. “…IGF-1 is a primary mediator of the effects of growth hormone (GH). Growth hormone is made in the anterior pituitary gland, is released into the blood stream, and then stimulates the liver to produce IGF-1. …” …More
  1. Growth hormone or insulin-like growth factor increases fat oxidation and decreases protein oxidation without altering energy expenditure in parenterally fed rats.
  1. Metabolic Actions of IGF-I in Normal Physiology and Diabetes “…In type 1 diabetes, IGF-1 synthesis is markedly impaired and in type 2 diabetes. …”
  1. Fat and the Ketogenic Diet:

How Much Fat Do I Eat on a Ketogenic Diet?

Today, we’re going to talk about something readers ask me about pretty consistently, which is how much fat to consume per meal on a ketogenic diet. I have the answer for you!

There’s a lot of theories out there about this, but I have an advantage—tons of patients I can kind of experiment on and survey to confirm, for certain, what works and what doesn’t.

Of course, I’ve been doing the ketogenic diet myself for years, and I’ve learned a lot along the way.

Some people seem to be under the conception that with ketogenic diets, the more fat you eat, and the more fat you will burn:


So don’t just turn up the coconut oil bottle like a diet cola and glug away.

If you eat too much fat, you will be burning off only the dietary fat you consume, not burning your own body fat, which is the ultimate goal for most people.

With the ketogenic diet, however, your purpose is to eat very low carbohydrate, moderate protein, and higher fat—NOT LOTS AND LOTS OF FAT.

What I’ve found is what works best is a diet of 0 sugar, unlimited vegetables, and between 20 and 40 grams of fat per meal.

Are Ketogenic Diets Safe for Your Heart?

I wanted to address the issue of fat and heart health first. When it comes to fat and the heart, people are very concerned because we’ve been told, historically, that fat causes our arteries to clog and hurts our hearts.

So patients ask all the time whether or not ketogenic diets are SAFE. The answer is YES. A keto diet is safe for the heart. In fact, ketogenic diets are not dangerous at all if you do them CORRECTLY?

See, IT IS NOT actually fat that clogs your arteries. IT IS THE SUGAR, and there have been countless studies done that confirm this.

This is because added dietary sugar is metabolized into triglycerides[1], which leads to the increased production of LDL particles which clog the arteries, leading to plaque build-up and atherosclerosis. …” …More


[1] Lack of the ability to absorb the fat soluble form of vitamin K-2 in the gut flora biome or in the presence of high glucose/sugar when combined with fat: “…Phylloquinone is found at high concentrations in green leafy vegetables and certain plant oils, while most menaquinones are usually found in animal livers and fermented foods. …” “…Finally, the hydrogenation of vegetable oils may decrease the absorption and biological effect of dietary phylloquinone (reviewed in 2, 9). …” (More information)

(MooBoom) #19

My n=1 - higher ketones definitely equal elevated mood.

0.5-0.8mmol = normal stable mood
0.9-1.3mmol = feeling energised
1.4-2.5 = high as a fricken kite :laughing:

I don’t supplement fat it all comes from dietary source and my adipose tissue.

Have you worked out if your readings correlate with predictable levels of energy? It’s a fairly useless but fun thing to do :joy:

(Diane) #20

I did a quick google search and found the following information on the dietdoctor.com website (which I’ve found to be a source of scientifically sound and practical advice in the past).

The quote below comes from this article:

“Blood ketones are best measured on a fasted stomach in the morning (before breakfast, that is). Here are a few pointers on how to interpret the result:

  • Below 0.5 mmol/L is not considered “ketosis”. At this level, you’re far away from maximum fat-burning.

  • Between 0.5-1.5 mmol/L is light nutritional ketosis. You’ll be getting a good effect on your weight, but not optimal.

  • Around 1.5 – 3 mmol/L is what’s called optimal ketosis and is recommended for maximum weight loss.

  • Values of over 3 mmol/L aren’t neccessary. That is, they will achieve neither better nor worse results than being at the 1.5-3 level. Higher values can also sometimes mean that you’re not getting enough food. For type 1 diabetics, it can be caused by a severe lack of insulin,… “

I only read through this quickly, but didn’t see any references which indicated the source of this information/opinion. But it seems it might be a reasonable place to start regarding your question.

Thanks for your question. This was an interesting article to read.

Good luck!

(Bunny) #21


(German Ketonian) #22

This sounds to me that you can have high readings in a fast. After fasting 48h, my ketone readings were 6.7 (blood glucose 72). No way I was still burning dietary fat at this point. It might be not the optimal zone but I don’t think one can say that high ketone readings mean that you took too much MCT or whatever. N=1, though.

(Diane) #23

That’s what I took away from this. You have to take your context into account when considering your readings. The highest my ketone readings ever reached was 6.2 on a 6 day fast. Alternatively, my ketones can go higher (say 2.0) after a day when I have eaten bacon and scrambled eggs with extra yolks but almost no carbs.

(Bunny) #24

Some more “Schtick” for your reading pleasure:


  1. Being Fat Adapted Versus "In Ketosis"
  1. Ketogenesis, Measuring Ketones, and Burning Fat vs Being in Ketosis
  1. Does being in ketosis automatically translate to fat loss? NO - Dr. Peter Attia

(German Ketonian) #25

@atomicspacebunny: Could you adress this point? This seems to fly in the face of a general statement contending that high(er) blood ketones are associated with dietary fat. I get your point: Ketones and weight loss aren’t related in a linear fashion. But the opposite isn’t true either.

(Bunny) #26


(German Ketonian) #27

My point is that your first statement sounded like “high ketone readings = dietary fat, not body fat burning”. I agree with the fact that high ketone readings don’t tell you anything about the source of the fat being burned. But I would maintain that your first statement regarding the OP is a bit misleading in that it suggests a definite answer purely on the basis of a ketone reading of 2,9. If you didn’t mean that, it’s fine. Just want to clarify.

(Bunny) #28

Fasting and baseline high ketone readings (fluctuate eradicately from high to low within seconds[2]) from fasting extensively or intermittently will still result in half of the weight loss being water weight not actual adipose tissue loss (WAT/VAT) or shrinkage. So it may appear like “…hey, I lost all this weight from fasting extensively (EF), I think I’ll do it again?” The reality is, your probably going around in circles playing rewind with the metabolism if you cannot maintain a steady weight loss balance LONG-TERM[1]?

How many times I eat a day is the deciding factor (maintenance) in this, not how long long or extensively I fast for other reasons than weight loss! In my case I eat once a day if I am not physically active and being sedentary[1]!

When you are in KETOSIS you are already in a fasted state, EF only amplifies the benefits of autophagy, too much autophagy long-term will have dangerous consequences and the opposite effect of why your doing it?


[1]“…But evidence shows that people who lose weight gradually and steadily (about 1 to 2 pounds per week) are more successful at keeping weight off. Healthy weight loss isn’t just about a “diet” or “program”. It’s about an ongoing lifestyle that includes long-term changes in daily eating and exercise habits.” - CDC

[2] …e.g. or simply moving, walking a lot or lifting something heavy, pump some iron then go back and check your blood ketone levels, they will drop like a rock (glycogen stores being depleted from skeletal muscle tissue and converted into glucose) and with a hiking peak in glucose numbers.

(German Ketonian) #29

Got it! Then, at least with me, there is no disagreement here!