Feeling discouraged

[anon2571578]

It’s difficult to overeat on fat and to sustain it. If I gave you the choice of as many fries versus as much steak as you wanted, you could go on eating fries to an obscene amount because the high insulin levels the potatoes will cause will make it difficult for your satiety signal to get through, and you’ll just be storing the fat. Steak, however, there will be a time when the body says “enough.” You might initially feel you’re overeating on fat, but you won’t be able to keep it up if you are. People are always worried that “eat until you’re full” is going to translate to eating 5000 calories. For one day, maybe. For three days, possibly. For seven days? Your satiety signal will kick in 99% of the time before that becomes an issue.

[Countdown2020]

So 500 of those calories get stored as fat, but your energy needs were really 1800 calories, so there’s a deficit. And because insulin is keeping your fat stores “locked way,” you’re hungry.

What a great layman’s explanation of how insulin works, Cindy! I wanted to quote the whole post but that would be a bit OTT…

[dlc96_darren]

@Ruina has already explained, but because you are a man ;), I’ll say it for you again. LOL In a slightly different way.

I appreciate that Cindy.

[DrewS]

Thanks cindy that makes a ton of sense. What role does protein play?

[PaulL]

But seriously how do you know how many calories your body is telling you to have?

For me, it started during week 3 or 4 of eating ketogenically. Until then, I had been the kind of eater who would fill up on pasta, say, to the bursting point, be complaining that my belly was sore from being so stretched, and still be hungry for more. But one lunchtime, I sat down with a full plate, as had been my wont, and halfway through, between one bite and the next, I was through. Could not eat another bite. It was really weird, because not only was my plate still half-full, my belly still had plenty of room in it! But there was nothing for it but to put the plate in the fridge for later. Much later, as it turned out.

Physiologically what had happened was that my insulin level had finally dropped low enough for the leptin that our fat tissue secretes when we have enough energy in storage to be able to get through to the leptin receptors in my hypothalamus. (A high insulin level blocks those receptors from registering the presence of leptin.)

With insulin out of the way, our fat tissue fills up with energy in the form of triglycerides, secretes leptin to tell the brain we don’t need to eat for a while (there are other satiety hormones, but leptin is a major one), and the brain signals the stomach, by way of the vagus nerve, to stop secreting the hunger hormone, ghrelin. And since insulin remains low until our next meal, the fat we stored from the previous meal can be slowly released to fuel the activities of the body. In a healthy metabolism, the fat tissue acts as a metaphorical fly-wheel to keep the metabolic machinery turning over at a steady rate.

The key is eating to satiety, which means eating when hungry, stopping eating when we stop being hungry, and not eating again until we’re hungry again. Before my leptin receptors became functional again, I ate a lot of food at each meal, true; but as I ponder the experience, I suspect that my body actually did need all that food at the beginning, to make a start on the healing process. Ever since my leptin started working, the difference between hunger and satiation has been crystal clear. I spend most of the day not wanting to eat at all. (Mind you, there are still plenty of carb cravings, but those are mental, not physical, and the difference between them and hunger is very clear, these days.)

[PaulL]

What role does protein play?

There is a hypothesis, called “protein leveraging” and first advanced by Simpson and Raubenheimer, that all mammals have an instinct to eat a certain amount of protein a day. In the case of human beings, a moderate amount of protein amounts to about 15% of a healthy diet. The quality of the diet then determines the number of calories eaten. By this hypothesis, the standard American diet, which is heavily diluted by carbohydrate, requires over-consuming calories in order for us to get enough protein. A low-carbohydrate diet can be diluted with too much fat, but if we eat enough protein, we will actually consume fewer calories.

This protein leveraging has been demonstrated in various animals, and it is plausible that people might work the same way. I haven’t read enough about this hypothesis to know whether it’s the full story or not (because Cindy’s explanation of hunger and satiety also makes a lot of sense), but it’s certainly intriguing. If it is correct, higher protein consumption ought to mean quicker satiation, fewer calories, and the (further) loss of excess fat.

[cw2001]

What role does protein play?

You need some protein in your diet because there are essential amino acids (leucine, isoleucine, lysine, tryptophan, histidine, phenylalanine, valine, methionine and threonine) that you cannot manufacture. Those amino acids are found in meat, but also in a variety of other places, such as eggs, cheese, yogurt and some vegetables. So even if you don’t meet your “macros” for protein for the necessary amino acids, you could also be getting them in your eggs, cheese, and vegetables for that day. That’s why, for me personally, I don’t feel a need to hit any sort of macro numbers for protein. I eat a varied diet according to what I’m wanting each day and figure the averages will work out just fine.

Also, with autophagy, your body can break down damaged cells to recycle amino acids, so that’s why, during extended fasting, you don’t see muscle wasting…so in a way, you really don’t even need protein for quite a while as long as you’re using fat for fuel.

You can also use protein to produce glucose (gluconeogenesis) which, I think, is where people get the “Oh no! If you don’t eat enough, you’ll cannibalize your muscles!” Certainly that happens in cases of severe restriction/starvation because your body will make glucose for the brain at all costs. But with keto, you’re giving your body plenty of energy in the fat you eat or the fat you have in reserve, so there’s no need to go to protein as a source for energy.

[DrewS]

Thanks @PaulL and @cw2001. This is so new to me I don’t want to panic yet per se but I do think there’s something to this protein thing, maybe its just because of how reliant I’ve been on heavy doses of protein for the past decade?

I’m stuck in a rut and the only time I saw a glimpse of positive on this diet was when I cut the protein for one day. Will update on my intro thread.