Fat like water ballons?

#1


[Added direct link to video _ carolt]

What do you think about this take on why the scale doesn’t move during stalls?

#2

Yes, I’ve heard of this before and she even calls it by it’s name - the “Whoosh Effect”, where the adipose tissue replaces stored fat with water, so there appears to be no weight loss, until the body finally decides to release the water and you suddenly see a large decrease in weight.

Looking back over my weight loss over the years, I’ve certainly seen some decreases in weight that far outweigh any reasonable expectation of decrease from one weigh in to the next, so it seems plausible.

#3

Intracellular and _inter_cellular water balance and retention is controlled by electrolytes sodium and potassium. I think the whoosh happens when the body finally reaches a new balance. And maybe some of it because of reduced adipose tissue inflammation. Unhealthy IR fat tissue attracts attention from the immune system and swelling occurs.

#4

I would assume the last part to be a precondition. Swelling before keto but 6 months in with 70lbs down, I wouldn’t think swelling to be the mechanism for stalling.

#5

Probably not at that point, no.

I do have a theory that there is a stall-then-loss when your body has used up your excess visceral fat and then has to rely more heavily on adipose tissue.

(eat more) #6

i found this

IMG_0516.PNG741×729 384 KB

(Kathy Meyer) #7

I’ve seen the whoosh diagram before, but I’ve lost 80 pounds and I’ve just never had one, other than the first two weeks when I really did lose a lot of water weight. I just go down a pound or two at a time (or up, or down, or up, or down), but , I just wish – would love to get a whoosh right now.

#8

Yes, just not sure what science the diagram may be based on on which the diagram may be based.

#9

One more possible alternative to the water-in-fat-cell analogy…

A high degree of insulin resistance indicates a large number of disfunctional adipose fat cells. Some of these have stopped taking up more fat, others are actually leaking fat back into the bloodstream. High blood glucose on keto is in part due to this unregulated fat being converted back into glucose. So…
At the start of a keto diet, there is water loss from glycogen depletion and electrolyte balance, swelling etc. Visceral fat goes directly to the liver for energy. Adipose fat cells that are the most damaged will easily leak fat regardless of insulin levels. Next, other insulin resistant cells will give up fat as insulin levels decrease. All the while you will see changes in glucose and triglyceride levels based on what is happening in the fat cells.
My theory is that as various easily available fats are used up, stalls will occur, and then the diet needs to be altered in some way to further more loss.

http://breaknutrition.com/breaknutrition-show-episode-2-guest-speaker-gabor-erdosi/

(Michael Wallace Ellwood) #10

I like your thinking Carol, especially:

I was thinking today, that for those of us who start out with a lot of fat to lose, after we have lost a significant amount, but still have plenty left, it should start getting easier to lose, and not more difficult.

My thinking on this was that our insulin resistance should be getting less and less, so our ability to lipolyze (is that a word? I mean to induce lipolysis) and thus liberate fatty acids for use as fuel should improve.

At the same time, all other aspects of our metabolism should be slowly improving.

However, in practice, I think the more people lose, the more difficult people find it to lose even more. Hence the apparent need to resort to fasting.

Your comment:

…seems apposite here.

#11

I’m thinking that for those with IR, there is an immediate drop in postprandial insulin, but a slow and gradual drop in basal insulin over a longer time as fat cells become healthier.

Also, there are other factors not related to the fat cells, like muscle mass and appropriate appetite. All of these things happen simultaneously and there may be times of convergence where you’ll see greater loss, and times of divergence where there’s no loss on the scale.

(Michael Wallace Ellwood) #12

Yes, that all sounds logical. Except that I am not familiar with the term: “appropriate appetite”.
What is that? Thanks.

In the meantime, I’m getting interested in / trying out “time-restricted feeding” (as mentioned by someone in another thread). I suppose it’s just IF really, except that when I, at least, IF’d, I was allowing myself black coffee, ACV, and sea salt in water. In my “TRF”, I’m only allowing myself plain water in the fasting phase. Funnily enough, the morning after I did my first day of that, I weighed in 2.4 lbs lower! I know these day to day changes are not significant in themselves, and it was probably mainly water, but it was still my biggest daily loss to date (since 1 Jan this year) - and very welcome. This morning I was back up by 1.2lbs…well, not exactly unexpected, and probably not a big deal. But I’m going to stick with the “TRF” for at least a week or so, and see how it goes.

#13

That’s when your hormonal system tells you you’re satisfied with the right amount of food, rather than feeling hungry all the time or over consuming. Some of it is from the action of leptin and ghrelin etc, some is the nutrition in the food you eat, some can be psychological.