Fat hierarchy question


#1

OK, is there a real hierarchy of types and sources of fat? Intuitively olive oil seems better than bacon. Butter seems better than pork rinds. Ribeye fat seems better than Crisco. Cream is better than margarine. Avocados are better than anything. Is it really “saturated and monounsaturated fats all good” and “polyunsaturated and trans fats all bad” or if not, how do these fats “rank up”

I’m sure many dieticians think canola is great and bacon is bad but I don’t. So if i have a choice of types of fat to eat (I do) how do I decide? Or should it be an assortment?

I looked and didn’t see this topic and the internet give me the standard responses (sure, some fats are good, just eat the healthy fats and not too much, blah blah


(UsedToBeT2D) #2

I think so.


#3

I’m sure that there’s some genetic variance in how we handle different fats, but my order would be something like:

  • beef or lamb fat
  • butter
  • other dairy if tolerated
  • avocado and coconut
  • olive oil
  • pork and poultry
  • safflower, soybean, canola, etc
  • margarine, Crisco

As much as I love high-fat eating, if I only had access to PUFAs, I would go HCLF.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #4

I rank fats in order of saturated fat content. I created the following table for comparison of common fats. Source info is USDA.


37%20PM

Oops! After uploading the table I noticed that I haven’t completed the PUFA fat names. I guess aside from cod liver, the PUFAs are such a small percentage of these fats I wasn’t much motivated to detail all the names and profiles. Although, I eat lots of bacon and cream cheese, so I will do it, then update this table.


#5

I agree with your priorities.

Eat lots of bacon and cream cheese then update your spreadsheet.

That goes for everyone.


#6

Even if one has the knowledge to rank fat types well (I don’t. I have some vague ideas and that’s it), even the same type isn’t the same or even similar as far as I know and it makes sense. Breed, feeding matters a lot when it comes to lard… I wouldn’t touch the lard in stores and I hate its taste anyway. I love the one I use and I trust the farm I get it from.
(Lard is my primary added fat source and well, a big part of my fat intake anyway but there the quality drops, I just can’t get farm-raised or home-raised pork in big enough quantity.
I get much fat from good quality eggs, I consider them very good for me. But as I wrote, I am not very knowledgeable about fats, I read this and that and I don’t even know about the types I don’t use. I hate avocado, for example. I just know ketoers like it and praise it so it’s probably not very bad :))


(Polly) #7

I totally agree with your list until the last entry. I am afraid margarine and Crisco don’t even make it on to my list because they are not food in my opinion.


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #8

Saturated and monounsaturated fats are generally much healthier than polyunsaturates. There are two types of polyunsaturates that are essential to the human diet, the ω-3 and ω-6 fatty acids, but we only need a small quantity of them. Furthermore, since the two types of essential fatty acids compete for the same receptors, we should try to eat them in more-or-less equal amounts. Most ω-6 fatty acids cause inflammation when eaten in quantity, and on a standard American diet (SAD), the challenge is not to get enough ω-6 fatty acids, but rather to avoid getting too much. Therefore, the best strategy for balancing ω-3 and ω-6 intake is not to try to increase our ω-3 intake, but rather to reduce ω-6 intake to a more reasonable level.

Industrial seed oils (which is what the industry calls them, even though they call them “vegetable oils” when talking to consumers) contain excessive amounts of ω-6 fatty acids, which is why we advise avoiding them. Polyunsaturated fats are also unstable, and they react poorly to being heated: they oxidise and form compounds not otherwise found in nature, and no one knows what happens to the human body that incorporates them into cell walls. But more and more researchers are beginning to suspect that the results are not good. Given that seed oils and inexpensive refined sugar entered the consumer market around the same time, it is difficult to tease out the specific effects of each, but it is probably not coincidence that the chronic diseases that plague us today were virtually unknown until these two products entered the food supply.

The upshot of all this is that, despite the nutritional advice of the past forty years, the best fats are the ones our grandparents and great-grandparents cooked with: bacon grease, butter, lard, and tallow. If you must use oils, stick to the fruit oils, such as avocado, coconut, and olive, because their fatty-acid profiles are much lower in polyunsaturates.


#9

Yesss!! I agree. When I first wrote the post I had a bunch of blank spaces after pork and poultry and before the processed oils, margarine and Crisco but it just looked weird.


#10

I think that commercial bacon and lard are - sadly - pretty high in PUFAs.I know that bacon is very popular on here, but when pigs are fed PUFAs, the PUFAs show up in their fat and on our plates, so personally I’ve dropped most pork products.

I don’t remember all of the science behind this but for anyone who’s curious, there was a long podcast with Saladino and Brad Marshall that went into detail on this question. Also Brad Marshall is a chef and pig farmer in addition to being a biochemist, so hearing his take on pig fat was very interesting.


#11

Is anybody concerned with 4-HNE and the long term effects cancer) of it accumulating in the body?


(Bob M) #12

Personally, I’d put avocado down below coconut and olive oil, as it’s higher PUFA.

Pork and poultry are interesting, as it’s possible to get low PUFAs for each (I’m about to get two shipments from FireInABottle of low-PUFA pork), but you can’t tell. For instance, I get chickens from the local farm. Are those lower PUFA than mass produced? I hope so, but there’s no way to tell.

Ruminants should be very high on the list, as they will largely be lower in PUFA, regardless of whether they are grain finished or not.

I look at it this way:

Saturated fat >>>> MUFAs >>>> PUFAs.

So, I would put cacao butter high on that list. Suet is also supposed to be high in saturated fat. That goes high on the list too, including tallow made from suet (general tallow is lower in saturated fat).

Basically, if it’s not man-made and is solid at room temperature, that’s the best.


#13

a few observations.

  1. no one seems to have mentioned trans fats. I am guessing those are way down on the list. I don’t personally believe they play any role in a keto woe or any other well reasoned diet.
  2. The assumption that all pufas are bad seems omnipresent. They include vital omega-3 and omega-6s and the vast majority of the nutrionists out there think they are one of the “healthy” fats. Yet some people differentiate what they eat because some foods have (relatively) small amounts of pufas. People make these statements with high levels of confidence–
  3. While we all love saturated fats in the sense of beef and lamb I have this default belief that olive oil and a lot of other monounsaturated fats are probably the best.
    4 (but sort of 2(a)) the whole grass fed v corn fed beef hinges on differences in the fat composition if the two products.

Grass-fed beef generally has less total fat than grain-fed beef, which means that gram for gram, grass-fed beef contains fewer calories— and that fat composition varies.
Grass-fed beef contains much less[monounsaturated fat than grain-fed beef
Grass- and grain-fed beef contain very similar amounts of omega-6 fatty acids.
Grass-fed beef contains five times as much omega-3s
Grass-fed beef contains about twice as much CLAs as grain fed.

Of course if you want to make up the difference in the good omegas you could probably eat one sardine.


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #14

I believe I mentioned in an earlier post that while ω-3 and ω-6 fatty acids are essential to the human diet, they are not needed in great quantity, and that the quantities of ω-6 fatty acids consumed on the standard American diet are excessive and will cause systemic inflammation, which is not healthy.

Dr. Phinney states in a number of his lectures available on YouTube that the challenge for people eating the standard American diet is not to get enough ω-6, but rather to avoid getting too much. The body doesn’t need much of any type of polyunsaturated fatty acid, actually, and will do better when the vast percentage of fats consumed are either saturated or monounsaturated.


#15

To me a lot of it comes to organic, free range and grass fed being high up on the list.
I like avocados and enjoy them but if you don’t I would not force them.

I am not a big fan of pork for personal reasons but if you are get organic, vegetarian and grass fed it should be fine. Bacon should be uncured or organic.

I mostly cook with avocado oil because it has a high smoke point, olive oil for light cooking, coconut oil and butter in that order. I have some chicken and duck fat that I use for certain dishes. I am sure vegetarian fed lard and beef fat is fine, I simply do not use it.

I avoid sunflower oil, canola oil and grapeseed oil even if they are cold pressed.


#16

Thanks. I got that. I will check those lectures out


#17

I don’t think pigs eat grass :slight_smile:
The PUFA content of pig fat can be very high even if it is fed organic and vegetarian.


#18

I’m curious about Marshalls’ pork. I might check in with you soon to see how you like it.

Yes! Updating my list:

  • beef or lamb fat (suet especially)
  • butter
  • cacao butter
  • other dairy if tolerated
  • coconut oil
  • olive oil
  • avocado oil
  • pork and poultry (unless fed low-soy/low PUFA, in which case they could go higher on the list)
  • safflower, soybean, canola, etc
    [then things like margarine, Crisco but not as foodstuff - maybe good for greasing machinery?]

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #19

@ctviggen @Madeleine See my chart above. Palm kernel oil has the highest total SFAs followed in order by coconut oil and ghee. Cacao butter follows closely behind ghee. Palm kernel oil has the lowest total MUFAs followed again in order by coconut oil and ghee. Cacao butter again follows ghee. All four of these fats contain sub-4% PUFA; palm kernel oil has the least at sub-1% followed by coconut oil, cacao butter and ghee. Cacao butter has the highest C:18 (stearic acid) content followed by C:16 (palmitic acid). Doesn’t Brad say stearic acid is the ideal fatty acid for his croissant diet? Or am I mixing that up with something else?

PS: I’ve had great difficulty locating sources of palm kernel oil. For example, unable to find any locally in Vancouver, I ordered 8 liters from a cosmetic supplier in UK! The stuff has a very strong and somewhat disagreeable flavour, so at first I thought they added something, like lanolin. But apparently not. It’s 100% pure, organic palm kernel oil from Ghana. It’s ironic when you consider that years ago palm kernel oil was used universally at movie theatres to pop corn. So you could buy it pretty much anywhere. One of the major casualties of the war on fat, I suppose.


#20

My issue with pigs is that they are carnivores/omnivores rather than herbivores. I think pigs eat anything that is put in front of them. Legally in the US you cannot feed cows any animal product. I do not believe that is true for pigs but I am not certain, there is risk associated with that