Fasting not going well

(the cheater) #18

I mean, you can call a dog a cat, and nobody can arrest you for that, but that doesn’t change the animal’s species :smiley:

(bulkbiker) #19

Except that if you look at the dictionary definition of the word “fast” then it is usually described as abstaining from food and or drink. So I feel completely ok using it to describe when I abstain from food. I’ve checked a few definitions and calories are not mentioned anywhere. I guess we just need to provide context when we use the word.

(Charlotte) #20

All that means is that you’ve been doing a fat fast rather than a full fast. Plenty of us (including me) do it that way. I have iced coffee with heavy cream and mct oil every morning and don’t eat anything else until the afternoon, and I’ve been steadily losing weight. It’s just one approach of many, not something to stress or be hard on yourself over.

(Jane) #21

^^^ THIS

Find out what works for you. Some folks are sticklers for semantics and some do what’s easier to adhere to until it doesn’t work anymore and then they adjust.

I broke a 3-month stall with a “fat fast” (cream cheese and BPC) and it worked well for me. Wasn’t technically a fast but it broke my stall and that was my goal, so a success!

I did a 3-day strict fast for autophagy and I got results, so like others have said - depends on what your goals are.

Since the overall goal of keto is to reduce insulin response, any fast that severely reduces carbs and proteins is a success in my mind!

(LeeAnn Brooks) #22

Well then, I could just liquify all my food in a high powered blender and say I’m fasting.
My Vitamix can liquify just about anything.

Would you consider that a fast?

(Ellie) #23

Not sure I ever want to try liquid bacon…:nauseated_face:

(LeeAnn Brooks) #24

Those two things aren’t mutually exclusive. Yes, I suppose I’m a stickler for semantics. It’s the English teacher in me. But that doesn’t mean if I want to clearly define something that I am opposed to someone doing a “fat fast” or that I believe it can’t be effective. It just isn’t actually fasting. If it works for you, carry on.

(bulkbiker) #25

No because as you have said you have taken all your “food” and liquidised it.
That does not magically turn your “food” into “drink” now does it?

(Kellie) #26

I just wanna loose weight the fastest so that I look good for my 25 birthday in january. We can blame my impatientness on me being a millennial :rofl:

(Jane) #27

At your age, a pound a week is reasonable. Stalls happen and are discouraging… but “whooshes” do, too!

#28

This is funny, because I was thinking I’ve basically reduced myself to the iced coffee slimfast diet. An iced coffee with cream for breakfast, an iced coffee with cream for lunch and a keto meal for supper. Lol.

(LeeAnn Brooks) #29

Nor is taking a coconut and turning into MCT oil and putting it in coffee.

(bulkbiker) #30

Wouldn’t know never used it… never will… just cream in coffee for me.

(Jane) #31

So plain black coffee is still considered a fast by your definition?

What about adding zero calorie sweetners? Still under 20 cal.

(Bunny) #32

Could cream (if it has sugar?) in coffee turn off IGF-1? It might not if NO sugar is involved?

Dr. Fung talks about a ‘set point’ as it relates to fat burning so these thoughts comes to mind;

  1. How long have I been doing the ketogenic diet? (6 months or more & practicing intermittent fasting (IF) ratios?)

Once this is determined, then we move to the second question…

  1. Are we ready to fast extensively or is the homeostatic environment of the body ready for extended fasting (EF) in the way of burning the fat we want gone long-term?

References Related to IGF-1 (comes from the liver not the pancreas):

  1. IGF-1 and Cancer – The Double-Edged Sword of Health: “…IGF-1 – The Basics: Before we can dig too deep into the how and why to manipulate our IGF-1 through lifestyle and diet, we should review some basics. IGF was first described in the 1950’s, when two scientists found that a mysterious factor within the blood appeared to incorporate sulfur into cartilage, supporting its growth.1 This factor was driven by growth hormone and also had a remarkable ability to pull glucose from the blood and into cells, much like insulin. …” “…At the end of the day, when it comes to longevity, dietary fat seems to be the odd man out, as limiting it does not appear to extend lifespan.35 Interestingly, when the protein versus carbohydrate wars are being waged, there seems to be a mysterious void? of any discussion including fat. So, while generally speaking, dietary carbohydrates most strongly stimulate insulin and protein most strongly stimulates IGF-1, fat remains the odd man out. Along these lines, when scientists create a strain of mice with a mutated insulin receptor and feed them a HIGH-FAT DIET, they live significantly longer.36 …” …More
(Jane) #33

Interesting, as always Bunny.

My husband and I are both cancer survivors and doing autophagy to prevent the reoccurrence which is statistically much higher than the general population. I plan to beat the odds.

(LeeAnn Brooks) #34

Yes, coffee and tea are both fine for fasting.
Adding zero calorie sweetners would also be fine as long as one doesn’t have a sensitivity to it.

(back and doublin' down) #35

There are many n=1 experiments on this site. What works in one study might not work in the other.

I fast regularly. Just ended a 5 day fast where every day had some sort of fat, BPC or bone broth. Not exactly sure on weight, but measurements done after a day of feasting show decrease of 1/2" in abdomen, more than that other places. Also, I have 60+ lbs of fat to lose. As long as the trend is downward, I’m content to have some fat in my fast to keep me going on the fast.

(the cheater) #36

​Well, as has been mentioned; it’s not a fast if you’re consuming calories; it’s just severe caloric restrictions, depending on how little you consume. There are different physiological/hormonal responses to both; with fasting have the more beneficial - but they only kick in on a true fast (not a fat fast, or a bone broth fast, or a Jamba Juice fast). I’m in no way suggesting they can’t have similar results - all I’m saying is that there is a difference; n=1 anecdotal evidence is fine, but we should at least be somewhat consistent in our terminology. However, I guess it seems lots of people here like to think of fasting as only consuming liquid calories, so I guess it is what it is. We’ll have to simply agree to disagree - or at least be specific; call it a “fat fast” or a “broth fast” or a “minimal-calorie day” - anything to distinguish it from a true, physiological fast. Just my opinion, of course, and I’m a nobody on the internet so no reason to listen to me lol!​

(Ron) #37

As @SlowBurnMary posted on a previous thread -

"Jason Fung MD, Mary Dan Eades MD, Stephen Phinney MD, Michael Eades MD, Megan Ramos and others educate on how it’s protein and carbs not fat calories that takes one out of the fasted state. The only thing that matters is carbs up to a point. (This may however not apply to sedentary non-fasters who take a heavy fat morning coffee along with a huge breakfast, followed by two other big meals - at some point, caloric excess can become a prob without physical activity).

That being the case, a coffee with 2-4 tblsp of fat (some of it HWC) to feed the brain all day is not only great for brainz, it in turn supports the metabolism and extends happy fasting.

In my own experience, inch-dropping and metabolic power have been unhindered by abundant fat in my coffee while doing IF 4:3 or 5:2. In fact, being an under 55 year old female I use a little half n half to get 1-2 carbs to help my body not lurch into the female mammalian starvation response of fat storage - which not only works according to my results, but also is tasty.

Plus, black coffee on its own is very hard on the stomach lining as well as tooth enamel, being quite acidic. Alkalinizing it with dairy (or salt, as some do) makes it all better tho apparently."

I am of the same mindset about fasting and will continue to use creamed coffee during my fasts. :smirk: