Fasting, autophagy, and fat supplementation


(Mark Rhodes) #122

@mikpaq That was a nice read. I am currently in day two of a 5 day fast and I was looking for more information on the role of autophagey and GH. Autophagey should really increase around 48 hours with a big GH spike during the 72 hour mark. Prior to my fast lifted heavy days straight and supplemented BCAA & EAA. Assuming day one clears out any excess glycogen and aminos my goal is reflected in this article- tearing down old structures, sprucing the place up a bit and then adding some paint to the walls via GH! YAY.
But seriously, good article. Need to read the actual paper next.


#123

The U.S. Department of Agriculture reports that standard black or green tea prepared with tap water has around 0.5 grams of carbohydrate per 6 ounce serving.

Why is green tea allowed in a water fast if it throws you out of autophagy? It has CARBS!


(Mark Rhodes) #124

36 oz would be 6 carbs, You would have to drink all of it at once to have any noticeable impact.


(Ken) #125

Fascinating. During my initial, 180lb. fat loss over a two year period, I did consume around 100g of carbs daily, after the first few months. It was in the form of a piece of fruit or two, eaten usually around Noon, when I was very hungry. All other food followed keto guidelines. All this seems to validate the fat burning rates of this thread.


#126

Interesting!Thanks for sharing


(Ruth Beardsley) #127

I, too, fast for the benefit of autophagy and apoptosis, as I have held an aggressive ovarian cancer at bay for 16 months. I am very happy to be this side of the dirt. I am in the middle of a 3-4 day fast which has been extended because I feel good. I am just finishing Day 8. I am amazed that my body can do this. I reckon I am about 25% bf pre-fast so even though I am not that heavy 5’-61/2” and 61 kg, I manage to fit in a fast most months. Every two-three months it seems I can do a longer fast. Have you landed on a length of fast and frequency which suits you?


#128

@Matamoros congratulations on keeping your cancer at bay. I have a good friend fighting aggressive ovarian cancer at the moment. Have you use regular fasting to kill off the cancer? How often do you fast?


(Mel Soule) #129

@matamoros Excellent fasting strategy. 6 years post prostate cancer treatment here.

While I started 2/18/2017 to reduce weight and increase mobility, I’ve stayed for the metabolic makeover. I’ve gotten both.

Just finished my longest of 4 Zornfasts so far. Oct = 88 hours, Nov = 84 hours, Dec = 90 hours and now 110 hours. Only IF and keto before starting extended fasts. Down 88lbs. Within 20-25 lbs of goal weight. Regular IF protocol is 18/6 with excercise during the end of the 18 hr fasting time.

Landing on a going forward fasting strategy continuously requires a conversation with my body. At the end of this fast yesterday cold sensation spoke loudly. Despite fat supplementation of 45% of estimated BMR. So I’m noodling a new approach for FeB Zornfast and going forward. From my reading of the literature and watching the informed videos it appears autophagy starts to amp up in the between the first and second day of the fast.

I have come to associate that acceleration with the sense of clear mindedness, which I call brain on fire. Seems to also begin when blood sugar drops about 10% from the beginning of the fast. It persists even beyond this fast now 1 day later. Despite my generous refeeding yesterday. So I’m in new territory here and will be conferencing with my body but suspect I’ll stick with the monthly timing on multiday filled in with the daily IF.


(G. Andrew Duthie) #130

Cold can indicate insufficient energy, for sure. But the other variable I’ve read about is thyroid. If you aren’t getting sufficient iodine (for example, from iodized salt), your thyroid may not be able to do its job, and one symptom of that can be cold. Low thyroid can also affect other hormones as well.

Since I usually do non-iodized pink salt for my salt intake, I started taking kelp tablets to ensure I have sufficient iodine. My n=1 experience is that I don’t seem to get cold as much since I started. Something to consider and, if you’re working with a keto/fasting-friendly physician, to discuss with them.


(Mel Soule) #131

@devhammer Andrew you are reading my mind…LOL. Thank you for sharing that. Reflecting on the two of four Zornfasts when the cold sensation was there it was sea salt only. The other two when no cold I used table salt mixed with sea salt as well. Going forward the table salt/sea salt mix is my SOP. I’ll let you know.


(Ruth Beardsley) #132

I am so sorry to hear about your friend. I caught my ovarian cancer at late Stage II, so had a fighting chance. I fasted 11 days prior to surgery and have fasted as often as I can. I have gained sufficient weight to be able to fast 3-5 days most months. OC is a high grade (fast growing) cancer which has no specific symptoms other than bloating, feeling full and fatigue. I had a good mate who died of OC after battling for 2-1/2 years, so I was getting blood screens - CA125 and HE4. These screens did not pick up the cancer.
I declined chemotherapy.
I have also gone to a herbalist/Naturopath. I have taken a series of liquid herbs and supplements to get my immune system working.
Please let me know if you want any more info. Send my kindest regards to your mate.


(Mark Rhodes) #133

I just started using iodine drops last month and my cold during fasts became a non-issue.


(Tim) #134

Congrats on being able to stop the progression of your cancer. Did your cancer appear before you started fasting? If so, I’d be curious to know the difference in its progression and how you feel before and after adding fasting. Also, have you experienced any resistance to your fasting from the doctors who are treating you? I have a few relatives who are in remission and would love to share more info about this with them.

As for my schedule, I would like to do a 3-5 day fast more often - say, once each month - but have been limited by how my wife responds to it. I dread the idea of even bringing it up with her. When I first tried a 5-day water fast a year ago, she was absolutely beside herself because she thought it was way too dangerous. During my fast, she woke up a few nights in a panic, begging me to cut it short, which I eventually agreed to. I shared research with her and even got my doctor to sign on as she requested but it helped very little at the time. I did another 3-day fast over the summer and just finished one a couple weeks ago and it seems she’s becoming more accepting. (I think recent segments on Megyn Kelly that covered fasting and the keto WOE actually helped a bit.)

Like you, I feel quite good 3 days in and expect that I could go for at least a few days longer. Maybe after a few more of the shorter fasts, she may become comfortable enough to at least tolerate it. I doubt outright encouragement will ever be part of the equation.


#135

That’s great information. I’m going to copy your post and send it to her.


#136

Outstanding thread. I have been flirting with the idea of EF for autophagy, but have been too chicken shit so far to actually try it. However, I think I could do a 5 day fast with fat supplementation.


(Ruth Beardsley) #137

Thanks for your questions.

I was familiar with OC, so went to the doctor when I was full all the time (I attributed this to LCHF), and got tired arms hanging the laundry. I asked to get my ovaries out. A scan done in April showed cysts on each side, but a follow up scan in July of the same year told a different story. The cysts had grown in size and developed their own blood supply. I asked for a copy of the scan results and googled “internal and peripheral vasularity” and “neoplasm”.
So in short, the OC was not actually diagnosed until 2-1/2 weeks post surgery, but upon googling the medical terms in the scan report, I embarked on what would turn into an 11 day fast. I only stopped because I was unsure of being fasted 18 days before surgery.
The difference is that I could feel my appetite SLOWLY improving and the fatigue in my arms improving. I can walk at a faster pace than I could previously.
My full story is here: https://passthetorchblog.wordpress.com/category/cancer/


#138

Have done intermittent fasting off and on, but never anything very extended until this week. Went about 30 hours before I felt like it was time to stop. I really never thought I’d even get that far the first time, so will see what I can do next time.


(G. Andrew Duthie) #139

The period between 24 and 36 hours is often the hardest, so it’s totally normal to feel like you hit a wall at that point. And it does get easier, as you learn what to expect. Good luck with the next fast!


(Mark Rhodes) #140

We moved quite naturally from 24 into 72 into 96 plus fasts. For us it was a matter of not thinking “oh I am not eating” to rather one of “look at this free time, what shall I do?” or “I’m doing autophagy now and losing bodyfat” When you do try, leave the fat out of the fast until you just cannot stand it. Who knows, perhaps you will surprise yourself.


#141

I do a 20/4 most working days, and last year a did several weeks with three 36-hour fasts per week. I haven’t gone beyond 36 hours yet. I really want to get the benefit of autophagy, especially now that I have discovered a biological half-brother who has advanced colon cancer.