False info?

(Robert) #1

Hi All,

I’m happy to be on a steady Keto journey.

I have not lost a lot of weight but keeping calm. I can feel the difference in other ways.

My wife and I have note gone Keto. Our adult son works out lifting weights and eats like the end is near! lol. As well as his circle of influence.

Our household is divided. Our camp is Keto our son is protein and carbs.
He just told us that Keto is bad for our health and “when” we “quit “ our “diet” our insulin will be out of control and stay spiked.

  1. This is a life change.
  2. I love being able to back up a differing opinion. Any input on what has happened with insulin if going off of Keto.

I realize that there will be a difference with insulin and health if someone goes back to carbs. He makes it sound like We will be completely screwed up if anyone should go off of Keto.

Thanks!
Robert

#2

Burden of proof is on him that that would actually happen (it won’t, carbs raise insulin higher than protein and especially fat). Tell him to produce a study to back up his assertions or sit down.

(Cranford Coulter) #3

I started Keto. I have Type 2 Diabetes. Within one week, I quit Levemir and my morning BG dropped. After two weeks, I rarely needed Novolog (fast acting insulin). When I did, it was the minimum dose, once every couple of days. Two months in, I am off of the Novolog. This means no diabetes meds. I am off of Losartan for hypertension. I am tapering off of Topamirate for migraine prevention. I have lost 12 pounds. ( I had lost 12 pounds before I started on low carb.)
My doctor is thrilled. She has several patients whose diabetes has been in remission for years now using Keto.

#4

Non-observational study, as they are so unreliable.

(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #5

I did Atkins for nearly a year in my 20’s. I was 43 before my doctor said I was almost prediabetic and to get it together before she does something. So I did. I don’t think you ruin anything when you live keto and then decide not to later on and I do think you give your body a break and help it heal. But doing it forever, we don’t really know, do we?

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #6

Well, if keto is going to kill me eventually, at least I will have led a much more enjoyable life in the meantime.

#BACONOVERBRANMUFFINS

ETA: Do you really think keto could possibly be as bad for us as the SAD? Really and truly?

(Justin ) #7

Hi Robert, I am doing Keto as a lifestyle change as well. I am doing it to lose weight as well and to remove almost all sugars from my diet. I don’t think I will ever completely quit but when I get down to my goal weight then I will maintain by raising my carb intake. It will still be low and I may not always be in ketosis but hopefully I can still enjoy certain meals that I like to cook and enjoy with a glass of wine. I am not going off keto per se but rather keeping sugars to as low as possible and carbs within a range to maintain my weight. Good luck and hope you make the change smoothly.

(Khara) #8

He’s actually essentially right, but for the wrong reason. If you quit keto and go back to a high carb diet, those carbs will cause your blood glucose and therefore insulin to be high. Maybe not out of control initially, depending on your health status, but with time it could likely become out of control. He’s making your argument for you. :smirk:

(Carl Keller) #9

If you son is getting his carbs from real food then more power too him. If he’s getting them from processed foods then he’s lying to you and to himself to justify his own addictions. Maybe he heard or read these inaccuracies about insulin. It’s just one of many lies we’ve been told to encourage and reassure us to buy processed foods.

We will absolutely be screwed up if we stop eating real food and return to eating garbage. Even if your son was right about insulin, I would rather keep feeling great, having less inflammation and having complete control of what, when and how much I eat. I rather enjoy living life instead of not having to labor through it like I did when I was on the SAD. I’m done being lied to and paying rich men for products that make me miserable.

(Jane) #10

:clap: :heart:

(Alec) #11

Intellectually, keto looks to me much better for us long term than SAD, purely on the basis of the evidence that IR seems to be a root cause (maybe not the only root cause) of many chronic diseases, not just T2D.

But do we have the RCT long term data to prove that like we expect the authorities to have for their CW? Not as far as I can see.

(Bethany) #12

I’ve heard the argument that those who go off keto have more insulin resistance or ‘impaired glucose tolerance’ thus it is “dangerous.” Technically this is true, but it’s not dangerous. Unlike the disease of insulin resistance, which takes a lot of time and effort to reverse, this phenomenon, often called the ‘glucose sparing effect,’ is temporary and adaptive.
Given the lower amount of glucose in a keto diet, the cells in our bodies that don’t need glucose become more resistant to the glucose we do have so it can be spared for the few cells that do still use it. It also acts as a muscle-sparing effect by reducing the protein needed for gluconeogenesis.

Here’s a reference addressing the “hypothesis that the restriction of carbohydrates, substituted by the high consumption of fats, induces a state of glucose intolerance and insulin resistance in rats”

https://www.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpendo.00580.2013

After explaining why and how this happens, they suggest - “For that reason, it should be common in clinical practice that patients submitted to oral glucose tolerance tests not be under severe carbohydrate restriction, since this could alter the response to the glucose overload. Thus, we suggest that the results from Bielohuby et al. (1) can be interpreted as a unique and not necessarily harmful metabolic condition, which is characteristic of this state, besides being transitory. As demonstrated by Kinzig et al. (4), the glucose intolerance and the peripheral insulin resistance are rapidly reversible with the reintroduction of carbohydrates in the diet. Additionally, the condition of induced insulin resistance is different from that induced by mitochondrial dysfunction, caused by oxidative stress generated by the glucose overload (3), which evidently does not occur with the carbohydrate restriction. In that context, ketogenic diets have not yet demonstrated adverse effects in the mitochondrial function.”

(Rob Grantham) #13

The body becomes more adapt at dealing with glucose in the blood stream as a carb burner (in the short term). Glucose in too high a quantity is a toxic entity in our body insulin spikes to get it out of our system as quickly as possible. It comprimises our immune system whilst its being processed. When you cut out all the carbs esentially your body gets used to the low glucose situation and over time adapts to burning fat. Therefore fat metabolites and enzymes are up regulated even on a cellular level.

In a sense your son is correct however as already mentioned this raised glucose response is a normal response by the body in order to get rid of a toxic invader. Over time the bodys ability to adapt to higher levels of glucose by the pancreas becomes compromised, we lose this response and become insulin resistant/ metabolically diseased.

As insulin sensitivity is improved on low carb the body becomes able to operate in a much smaller range of glucose. Our ability to deal with glucose becomes impaired. This is an adaptive response by the body to lower glucose levels. This is a good thing. Glucose is toxic at higher levels. The effects of chronically raised insulin in your body will slowly but surely destroy your health.

#14

Should be handled as everything else u know is wrong, if he thinks running against a wall is a good idea, then go ahead boy go try it. If he really thinks overloading ur body with high carb/protein food to compensate for insecuritys is a great idea, then let him think that, i wouldnt argue about it, u do u and let him do his thing.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #15

Why do we need long-term studies to prove that the default human diet is safe? Until the authorities started screwing with it, the American diet was considered the healthiest in the world, because of its meat content, and because Americans were taller, healthier, and lived longer than everyone else in the world. Alas, not true anymore! :frowning:

(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #16

So people can shut up about it and stop writing silly articles for the Guardian and Daily Mail that a bunch of uneducated folks take as gospel. For doctors who tell folks they shouldn’t be doing it. For diabetic nutritionists who tell diabetics to eat more fruit and grain. And finally, for the jack off who wrote an entire Wikipedia entry about how dangerous it is.

The people who feel better and are living better probably wouldn’t mind a long-term study but it’s not really for us, in my opinion.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #17

Ah! When you put it like that, it makes sense. Tks!

(Carl Keller) #18

Sounds good on paper but I’m not convinced that science will settle the debate. Wealth has corrupted science and the media. Any study that proves that low carb is healthier will be accused of bias and vice versa for high carb. The problem is that the high carb side of the issue is vastly more powerful and will just bribe and lie their way out of any study that challenges the status quo.

I’m not saying I don’t want these studies to be done. The WWW has given people more access to data than ever before and more data that contradicts the carb hypothesis will help free thinkers and desperate people who are sick of being sick and tired of being unhealthy. I’m just saying that it’s going to be a long and uphill battle.

(Jay Patten) #19

Robert, he is quite right that quitting keto will in fact make your insulin sky rocket. And your BP. And your weight. And your resting HB. And your A1C. And your inflammation. And your risk of disease.

Guess you’ll just have to stay on keto. :grin:

(Scott) #20

So therefore it is dangerous to start keto WOE, I guess most people that don’t eat keto can see the logic in that.