Falling off keto and finding a way back to it might actually be the most common manifestation in the community


#1

Wagon falling is probably rife in any community of people who take an interest in nutrition. But the psychology of shape shame, and admitting a lesson learnt from a mistake, oppresses us into silence.

The addictions, cravings, guilt, self criticism and social pressures are all wonky hurdles the wagon fallen must face and on stumble as they/we try to get back on it.

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Horse falling has also been alluded to in brave posts in these forums. And for those who ride the highest horses, the fall and floor can be hardest.

We all start this thing inspired and convinced we will never fail, never fall. It feels so good after all. We look back down the path and think, “I’m never going back there”. And then just as we turn forward again the tree branch hits.

A heavy fall may result in a personal reassessment on eating that high horse, along with a side of claims (claims to oneself and the community of how perfect one will be in the lifestyle or woe. Perfect woe) and, for dessert, one’s hat. Then, having wasted that time, dust off and continue on toward better health on-foot and under one’s own steam. The weight bearing movement, especially with the self applied guilt load, will be beneficial and is an irresistible form of resistance training.

My best guess is that falling off keto and finding a way back to it might actually be the most common manifestation in the community.

The silent deep sea of souls watching those nearer the light exclaim their joys and progress, and in so doing dragging us up with them on a tide of hope.

We are all just slip sliding (like the ice skaters on the Titanic’s rink in a stormy sea) between the clear consequences and ill health of dysfunctional eating, and the golden glow of weight loss goals, nutritional wisdom, better bio-markers and extended health span beckoning on the horizon.

Maybe? Fill me with philosophy.


#2

A great piece of advice from DClawdude on Reddit, which I strive for, but too often fail at:

This is a mindset issue that only you can choose to solve.

There is no magic bullet to starting or restarting or continuing.

Ultimately you build discipline and commit, or you don’t. Control and motivation are not about willpower really, they are about discipline, creating a new normal, and also goals. The scale itself is often not enough motivation, and motivation can only get you so far versus discipline.

As you have noticed, motivation is fleeting and can be affected by external factors. But discipline and building something into your daily habit can help ensure success even when you don’t feel “motivated” in a given moment to continue as you’ve been going.

Discipline is basically building good habits and sticking to them. You have to ask yourself what is more important to you: being less fat in a month or having a candy bar now? What is going to provide more long term satisfaction?

Frankly there is always an excuse to cheat. There is always an upcoming holiday or birthday or graduation or quincenara or bar mitzvah or other celebration or someone decided to just bring cookies to work or you go out to dinner and order a sandwich instead of something else. There is always an excuse, if you want it bad enough you will just not make excuses.

Which is not to say it isn’t difficult, it IS to say that committing is what is necessary especially when you are in an environment where others eat other things.

Stress happens, keto or no. I’m a busy person, I manage to plan, meal prep, and keep keto. I go out with friends when stressed and keep keto. Don’t let stress or being busy be your excuse.

With regard to emotional eating, if you’re doing that, develop other/better coping strategies that actually address the underlying feelings. “Eating your feelings” is just a bandaid and does not actually get to the deeper issue.

A lot of people also say that thinking, “I no longer eat that” is a more helpful mindset versus “I can’t have that.”

If you cheat and fail, reflect critically on why it happened, don’t go into a shame spiral - make a plan for the next time the situation comes up, because it will, and think about a better way to handle it.

Committing to changes that improve your health can be hard. Being fat is also hard. Choose your hard and stop making excuses. You have to want it, nobody can want it for you. Commit or don’t - it’s your body and only you have to live in it.


#3

A shorter version of that is KCKO – Keep Calm and Keto On.

Don’t let a mistake or a lapse derail you. It’s in the past and there is nothing you can do to change it. But you can learn from it. Don’t fall into the same trap.

Be disciplined. Don’t overthink it. Don’t dwell on it. Move forward.


(Troy) #4

“When we are conscious of our guilt we are in a more favourable position—we can at least hope to change and improve ourselves. As we know, anything that remains in the unconscious is incorrigible; psychological corrections can be made only in consciousness. Consciousness of guilt can therefore act as a powerful moral stimulus. …Without guilt, unfortunately, there can be no psychic maturation and no widening of the spiritual horizon.”

“After the Catastrophe” (1945), CW 10, § 440

This is all I got @FrankoBear
:smile:

I was definitely in the consciousness when I demolished a bag of some beautiful, picturesque, And glowing morsels

Better known around these neck of the woods
Skittles! :rofl:


(Alec) #5

I find it interesting that this is the first thread I see on returning to this forum having spectacularly fallen off the wagon and essentially at the start again.

But this time, I know what to do. I know what works for me, and what does not.

During my long sickness time (this has been the reason for my lack of balance on the wagon) I have just prioritised feeling better, and not worrying about my weight or fat level. That may have been a mistake, but anyone who has been through long term sickness will know what it feels like. It ain’t easy to stick to an eating regime when you are feeling crap.

So, I return with my fat ass in tow, and ready to put what I know works for me into practice: here comes fasting and fitness. It just takes time. The result is inevitable.
Cheers
Alec


#6

Good to see you back Alec


#7

Feed my philosophy.


(Bunny) #8

I did hardcore strict keto with a few cheats here and their when going out to eat for almost two and half years and learned a lot of lessons and most important lesson learned is that this is still “experimental” and I can clearly see whymy over all assessment is reaching that conclusion; from hardcore experience despite the so called successes you see at Virta Health and other well documented case studies, but that does not mean that it scientifically validates this way of eating on a permanent basis. There are very big unanswered questions still looming in the background that nobody seems to be questioning or answering and some of those questions are:

“…Are we actually causing our own diabetes when we don’t already have it with this type of diet?” (e.g. postmortem studies on pancreatic beta cell numbers?)

“…should non-diabetics or pre-diabetic insulin resistant people be eating like this?..

“…originally used for pharmaceutical resistant epilepsy…”

…carbohydrate density absorption can be remedy with dietary fiber not just with carbohydrate restriction or caloric restriction…

“…when you look at the effects protein has on mTORC1 and 2 you would NOT be eating so much of it?”…”

You can only eat refined carbohydrates up to a certain point and then metabolic damage follows unless you are a body builder and have a real need for that kind of carbohydrate density especially a dose of fructose?

Sleep and not getting enough deep delta REM sleep is another cause of obesity and metabolic disease, I would bet my bottom dollar the majority of the worlds population have sleep apnea and don’t even know it from eating so often and so close to sleeping windows and the research proves it? Get a C-PAP machine and watch your body burn fat like a forest fire and how much energy you have and need for caffeine 0?

Bottom line we just eat too much and can derive more lessons learned from gastric bypass experiments i.e. “surgical treatment” is better example than a ketogenic diet of the primary cause of obesity and metabolic disease?

What it tells me:

“Hey STUPID you eat too much and too often that’s why your fat and metabolically unfit?”


#9

Change is friggin’ hard LOL
Change of anything that we have as a habit, formed our lives and our ‘traditions’ like big old Easter dinner or Christmas dinner extravaganza and more.

to me in full truth change is all about your commitment and absolutely about what info you have learned while doing your journey, and did you bother absorbing and listening to people who have ‘been there, done that’ cause that is what worked for me personally.

I searched out those who succeeded and made their journey fit into mine. I took all that suited my life from what they told me. That is how I got success and commitment and strength to change…not play at changing, I changed all in LOL

We will all detour and our lives will never be the same from birth to death and never be all the same medical issues and more.

but commitment into your personal cause must happen or nothing will change in the long term. Long term is key. You gotta want it and commit.

Fall, get up and commit harder but there must be the day I say I am all in no matter what and mean it. If not you aren’t there in your commitment to hold plan…but every drop we feel in eating off and how it effects us and more is learning.

At some point you have to not be the pupil and become the teacher ya know. You must graduate into achieving what you desire or why bother? For all of us it could be a longer time journey to achieve this end point, but it is there for all of it if we want it. At some point you have to go all in or why bother if we whine/backslide/and never learn and act on those full truths we have learned about ourselves along the way. Full truth of what we know where we should go…act on it long term and give some Umppftt to what ya desire in life, then success comes.

we all got it in us. we do, we have to believe it, desire it, make it happen in our life thru commitment and hard work and face detours and bob/weave/swerve as we must thru it all and educate ourselves.

after that, do ya want it bad enough truly to hold your new life long eating plan? Such a true personal question on that one.


#10

My mother used to say “Be kind to yourself” and I think it is excellent advice for everyone, specially me. I say “Speak to yourself gently, cause you listen to yourself”.


#11

I don’t have any philosophy to share, but your post resonated with me. I am often surprised and impressed by the number of forum regulars here who seem to fully embrace this as a permanent way of life, and have chalked up literally years of near-perfect keto eating. The mere concept of such an achievement is mind-boggling to me in its remoteness from where I am right now.

For my 37th birthday this year, I decided to start again. That is the story of my WOE at the moment (maybe for a year or more now) — a continual process of falling off, starting over, falling off, starting over. I’m pretty sure it’s taking me less and less time to snap back into low carb, as time goes on, but it’s hard to tell for certain. I just know that I feel better when I’m eating LCHF. When I’m not, the temptations of sugar and flour feel overwhelming (cookies, ice cream, chocolate, pasta, chips and drive-through fast food are my main weaknesses). Quite frankly, restricting carbs is really the only way I’ve ever found to cope with a lifelong pattern of addictive eating and bingeing on sugar. Personally I feel huge improvements in my wellbeing anywhere between the 25 and 50 net carb level, but maybe that’s simply in comparison to the 100s of carbage grams I eat when ‘off plan’. There’s rarely any moderate, middle ground! When on plan, I rarely manage to eat less than 25g NC… I am beginning to wonder if that is actually part of the reason why I keep falling off, and I would actually find it easier to restrict below 20g? But it’s all a bit of an experiment really. The latest part of my n=1 experiment is a tiny baked potato before bedtime - I’ve been reading “Potatoes Not Prozac” and want to boost my serotonin and improve my sleep. Who knows what I will discover?

This reply is getting a bit rambly now. But I have always found a deep and authentic vein of truth to Buddhist perspectives on craving and addiction. What is the answer to overcoming this? Probably awareness, meditation, mindfulness (so I’ve read). Honesty is likely an important step too. Thank you for your own honesty in sharing this post.


#12

“Failure is the opportunity to start over again more intelligently.”

— Henry Ford

“Nothing ever goes away until it has taught us what we need to know.”

— Pema Chodron


#13

Oh it is very familiar… But I did 80g net carbs for years and it worked for a while very well.
I think it’s worth to try to go lower. Just for a while, maybe you will be surprised. I surely was. I did keto with a generous amount of carbs (the lowest I could go at that point), tiny benefits, the huge benefit of fat adaptation but it lacked something. Multiple things. I am sure I had to do that at that point of my journey but it wasn’t ideal. I went lower (mostly forgot about plants) and it’s way better when I am able to do that (it’s raging fruit season in my garden and I have my limits) - and actually, it helped my off days too. Carnivore-ish is WAY easier for me than keto with plants (and not my old vegetarian keto, keto with meat and plants and others. it’s problematic, probably mentally and physically too, carbs often mess with me). I even know the “no middle ground” situation as I had that lately but my carby days are usually still low-carb. And I knew the feeling when one can’t eat below some limit for multiple days in row. But we can change, eventually :wink: (Except maybe the ones who needs more carbs for some reason.)
Maybe it would be better for you to go lower right away, maybe it will be better for you later… I needed almost a decade on low-carb, some very strong keto habits and a different relationship with vegetables to be able to go really low BUT I am a hedonist who doesn’t resist temptations and I was into my vegetables very much. Most ketoers start with a 20g net or total carb limit right away even without low-carb times first. But not everyone can do that. We have our individual circumstances, desires, demons, weaknesses… So we need our own keto style (or some other woe, keto isn’t for everyone).

Many of us experiment to find the best woe. Keto (in general, without any specifics about how to eat, only with the single carb limit for ketosis) may be just a start… It immediately works for some and others need tweaking or their woe simply evolves as time passes, circumstances, tastes, needs and goals change…


(Dave) #14

I went keto in March of 2019. By September I was down about 40 lbs and feeling good. Brains and bodies both work better burning fat, it seems.

But my fitness level wasn’t great so, in September, I set a goal of taking my daughter downhill skiing for her first time. If you’ve never been, snow skiing requires a rather high level of fitness to be enjoyable. Heck, just walking around in ski boots at high altitude requires a good bit above the couch potato level of fit.

So I hit the gym a lot, stayed keto, and, over Christmas, we went to Steamboat Springs and had a great time. Win!

Over the vacation, however, I allowed myself whatever carby food I wanted to have, except for sugary treats. And, since then, I haven’t hardly kept things under control at all. Also, being out of work due to the Panic has also not been helpful to my discipline.

So I’m back to the weight I was a year and a half ago, I’m out of shape again, and I can’t find where I’ve misplaced the motivation to get back in gear.


(Bob M) #15

I think it depends on your personality, and also how you treat food, and possibly other things. For instance, my wife was forced by her parents to eat less as a teen. That has harmed her. She mentally relies on food during stressful times.

Meanwhile, food for me is mainly a tool. And I have the ability (or possibly detriment?) to do what I say I’m going to do. If I say I’m fasting for 4.5 days, that’s what I do. If I say I’m eating keto, that’s what I do.

I still go “off plan” at times, but I always come back, and those times are relatively short. If I use food as a tool for depression or stress, it’s not for long. And eating the way I do has caused a better mood overall.

When I was eating low fat, high carb, I would feel good, but then get depressed or angry. Looking back, that was probably the blood sugar swings at least. Then, I’d start to drink, eat pizza, then eat ice cream. I’d snap out of it, go low fat again, repeat ad absurdium.

But with low carb, I don’t have depression. I don’t have mood swings (save very rarely). I don’t feel the need to drown in alcohol, pizza, ice cream.

And I think although low fat is a crappy way to live (my opinion), it also taught me things. For instance, when I eat cheese, I have no desire necessarily to eat more. I think that’s because I didn’t eat cheese for years. I never ate chips, pretzels, snack foods, fast food, either. For decades, I did not eat those. I therefore can eat some tortilla chips now and be done with them. I don’t want more.

And I have the ability to eat things like ice cream one day, and not want any more. It’s not a slippery slope for me.

But it is for many others.


#16

The motivation is here Dave. You wrote it. Read it. It will get you started again. This time yu know you will feel great. No doubt.


#17

gold


#18

I get this. I did it twice. Lost 70 lbs eating low kcals and starved doing it and then of course ate junk and gained about 60 back…then I did 2 years of low carb up and down the scale, lost like 50 of that weight and then put on like 45 of that weight lost back on.

I tell ya that up and down…and we aren’t talking 4-5 lbs…we are talking almost all regain is a mind killer. All the negative ya know we put on ourselves. And the final thought for me was: why bother? If it comes back like that why bother? It is super hard to say one more time!

What I did was I realized in full truth to myself the only way to improve my health was to stay on plan. There is no magic pill, wishing it away, thinking about starting and never doing that wasn’t gonna work LOL believe me I prayed for the lbs. gone and great energy all the time but prayers didn’t work either :smile:

One thing gets results and we all know it. Stay on plan. The plan that works for you is the plan that controls your health. We all who have been up and down in lbs we lost and regained know that only one thing works…get on plan and stay there.

So I did that. And I dropped 50 lbs AGAIN and am losing my last 20-25 I want gone…but in the end it was so simple yet I complicated it so much. Just stay on plan. And have hit that now for like 3 years tight on 0 carb and decided no matter how fast I lose lbs. it would never be my focus…you know that killer focus of MUST lose lbs…I said to myself I will eat the best darn meals I want ON PLAN, eat well, relax and stay on plan. Successful long term people who lost, feel better and improved health and are holding those results are people WHO STAY on plan. They said that is the secret to it all. Stay on plan. And it sucks ya know HAHA I wanna suck down ice cream/French fries and more junk…we all do mostly LOL but in the end if it takes XYZ then I am just gonna do XYZ.

So everyone finds their way back again and when they do, my best advice is just hold plan. My goals now are each meal. Each and every meal be on plan. Last of the lbs are coming off slowly, I feel wonderful with energy and in the end only one things means anything to me every daily,…my meal has to be on plan.

I jhaven’t found any way around any of that for me LOL, I tried…but in the end on plan is where I have to be to be the best me :slight_smile: So in the end it is a hard acceptance knowing I have to stay here on plan to make it work. I can’t moderate. On plan is key for me at all times, but when I started…for my last darn time cause I was so over this gain and lost crap…I said truthfully to myself…I will stay on plan. It was so simple to say, kinda tough to get rolling and do but in the end it is what worked for me.

I sure hope you find your way back and motivation to hit plan and grab on for the ride :slight_smile: Most of us have been there, most of us do make it back and succeed again :sunny: I bet you will get in gear and start again and find that improved health you are wanting :wink: