Exogenous keytones while in a extended Fast for better performance in the gym

exogenous
(Jeremiah ) #1

Has anyone ever tried this? I know it sounds experimental but I heard it boosts cognitive function and acts like a neurotrophic. I would think that in small doses it’s almost not going to break the fast or does it? I would think it could help with lifting while on a extended fasted state as well. I’ve lost enough weight and want the benefits of being in ketosis and gain some muscle. Any tips. I’m thinking of trying a 24 fast and trying this experiment pre workout then 1 hr post work out consume a small amount of carb wait 30/40 min and then feed with a keto meal. Then the next week try a 48 fast and try again and compare results. Any tips are greatly appreciated :pray:

Exogenous Ketones effect on fasting
(Duncan Kerridge) #2

Do you have trouble getting into ketosis regularly? I just finished a four day water & black coffee fast and my blood ketone levels were 4+ after the first 24 hours, 6.7 at the end. There’s obviously more ketones floating around than I can use. I can’t see why taking more exogenous ketones during a fast would provide any benefit?

#3

I can think of few reasons to supplement with exogenous ketones, and they generally involve high level athletes or brain/cognitive/mood dysfunction and cancer. The fasting should boost ketone levels and it would be redundant to supplement. If you are looking to fuel your workout, fat will do just fine.

There are also benefits to exercise in a fasted state. Over time, the body will respond to longer periods of fasting, which promotes growth hormone and fat utilization.

(Jeremiah ) #4

Thank you Carol! I will definitely make note of that! I think the first option for me is pre workout supplementing with my MCT oil powder which will break my fast but give me a clean fuel source to hopefully sustain a intense workout💪

(Duncan Kerridge) #5

Have you tried working out after a 24/48hr fast without adding anything to set a baseline?

(Siobhan) #6

Fasting encourages HGH which promotes muscle growth. As far as I know you do not need any supplementation, and the cheaper way to supplement with ketones before a work out is… to eat fat. Your body will convert it for you and make a lot more than a supplement can provide. I know @brenda has no issues with exercising while fasting

(Jeremiah ) #7

Thanks I think I may try to boost my ketones more naturally with MCT oil powder high in caprylic acid 8&10

(Jeremiah ) #8

Yes I did yesterday and then about 30 min after I had half a rice cake to keep from having such a drop in blood sugar then went right into keto 30/40 minutes later. I felt great and not that sore even today after a intense workout :weight_lifting_man:

(Duncan Kerridge) #9

Did you get dizzy or something?

(jilliangordona) #10

I workout 5-6 times a week fasted (heavy lifting or hot yoga) at first I felt a bit weaker than normal, but now that my body has adjusted I have stronger workout when lifting and a better feeling yoga session. Just need to be extra diligent about keeping salts up… the only time I see issues is when I let this lag.

On heavier workout days I will sometimes indulge in a coconut water pre/while working out. I’ve found it does not knock me out of ketosis or give me any issues, but of course n=1

#11

@Brenda can probably give you some tips on lifting fasted too.

(Richard Morris) #12

When I exercise fasted my blood sugar drops to as much as 3.5 mmol/l (65 mg/dl) but the process of my liver responding to that to make more glucose, causes me to make even more ketones… Normally my ketones range from 0.2 to 0.8 … but when I exercise fasted they can go as high as 3 mmol/l. I rarely become faint even at such low levels of blood glucose because I make ketones. But then it’s been over 3 years since I ate a rice cake so I am quite good at sparing glucose for my brain and running the rest of my body on fat.

(Jeremiah ) #13

Hi Rich! Thank you very much for responding and encouraging me. I am going on month#3 keto and am trying to learn as much as possible. Just started a gym membership yesterday since I’m not wanting to lose anymore weight with the running/cardio. Was wondering if you have ever tried using exogenous keytones while in a extended fasting state Or could point me in the right direct of someone who has? I know it sounds experimental but I heard it boosts cognitive function and acts like a neurotrophic. I would think that in small doses it’s almost not going to break the fast or does it? I would think it could help with lifting while on a extended fasted state as well. I’ve lost enough weight and want the benefits of being in ketosis and gain some muscle. Any tips. I’m thinking of trying a 24 fast and trying this experiment pre workout then 1 hr post work out consume a small amount of carb wait 30/40 min and then feed with a keto meal. Then the next week try a 48 fast and try again and compare results. Any tips are greatly appreciated :pray:

(Richard Morris) #14

If you eat fat to satiety you weight will converge upon your set point and stay there. You want muscles, do more weight bearing exercise (lift heavy), get adequate energy (eat fat to satiation) and get plenty of sleep in between. If you really want lots of ketones to get the neurotropic effects, eat medium chained fats like coconut oil and you should make plenty.

It’s a lot safer to make them in the correct context than introduce ketones that have been made externally.

Betahydrobutyrate (BOHB) comes in two forms like a Tetris “L” shape - a right handed version that we have been making for roughly 3 billion years and have all the equipment to use

And a left handed version that we don’t make and we really don’t know what feeding a human a caloric amount of the stuff for several decades will do.

Also our balance of Acetoacetate (AcAc) to Betahydroxybutyrate (BOHB) is determined by our NAD+/NADH redox state. Eating BOHB means we are putting our thumb on the scale of a process we would have to re-balance elsewhere in the body.

Finally we make ketones when glucose and insulin are low - that is the correct context. Having ketones in circulation with insulin AND glucose because you ate some is not the correct context. Which is something that Dr Ben Bikeman warned against at the low carb conference in Breckenridge.

Personally I wouldn’t take the risk … and as a podcaster I get companies trying to give me free samples all the time.

(Jeremiah ) #15

Thank you so very much Rich I truely am greatful for your responses as I do take your advice and respect the km knowledge of science that you have in terms of ketosis and fasting. I had a question about autophagy if you would be so kind to touch on this subject. I’m very interested in achieving some positive effects while fast ok ng. Autophagy and an I’m wondering if by breaking my fast with MCT oil powder is hindering a pathway that I might otherwise get benefits to if I could just try to do without the powder. I was told that the process of how they make the powder starch and protein are added which I had no idea however it does say 1 net carb per scoop. Also the same question with tea and coffee. Should I be trying to just do a water only fast to get particular benefits or should I keep fueling my liver with keytones from the MCT oil powder. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. God’s blessings Rich!

(donna broussard) #16

what if your body is having trouble making ketones…I’ve read that can happen…and you are dragging mentally and physically trying to get fat-adapted…I’m in first two weeks of a water fast (Day 15) and I don’t want to stop the fast, but I’m going to lose my job if I don’t get some mental energy in here real quick…couldn’t the ketones carry me through for a bit til I get fat-adapted or start making ketones or correct whatever is going on in my body…what brands have the good BHB?