Hello everyone! So Ive been on-and-off keto for about 2-3 months now and for a few different reasons Ive found it a bit difficult to work in a full-fledged Keto regiment, to the point that its practicality becomes questionable when I bulk up on healthy fats only to get knocked out of Ketosis a few days in. Ive been maintaining an extremely low carb diet for years now, but the protein ratio always seems to be a bit of an issue for me. I love being in Ketosis around the time of my trainings, however, both for the weight loss benefits and for the focus and energy I get, and so my question is essentially, would it be worth it for me to use Exogenous ketones as a pre-workout supplement if I know that I wont be maintaining nutritional ketosis for long afterwards? Or would that be a total waste of money?
Furthermore, If I were to do that, I would assume mixing in MCT oil while taking the E.K.s would be of obvious benefit, but would it be worth it to also load up on healthy fats in the hour or two prior, or would the exogenous ketones render that essentially unnecessary? Likewise, would it be worth it to eat a meal of healthy fats afterwards? (ie, post workout?) Or, knowing that I lacked the intention to continue nutritional ketosis, would a protein intensive meal be more recommendable?
Exogenous Ketones - Practicality
What is the point of the exogenous ketones?
If you are “maintaining an extremely low carb diet for years now,” then your liver is probably producing ketones, unless you are eating too much protein, so that it is stimulating insulin secretion and inhibiting lipolysis and ketone production.
The greatest insulin stimulation comes from eating carbohydrate. Protein stimulates insulin production at half the rate, but of course it is essential. So the goal is to keep carbohydrate intake as low as possible and protein intake at a high enough level to preserve lean tissue, but not high enough to trigger excessive insulin production. Fat stimulates insulin production to some degree, but the effect is negligible in comparison with that of protein and carbohydrate, making it a source of “safe” calories.
If you are trying to bulk up, then you want extra protein in order to build new muscle tissue. If you want energy for performance, fat is your friend. But ketosis/lipolysis is best for endurance events (ultra-marathoners do great on it); for explosive performance (think sprinting), you still need glucose, as I understand it.
If your body is already producing ketones, then exogenous ketones sound like a waste of money to me. But I am not a lifter, so my opinion may not be relevant to your needs. Have you any idea whether you are fat-adapted or not? If you are, then your body has no need of exogenous ketones, because your muscles can metabolize fatty acids, and you have plenty of those in store, even if you are very lean. If you are not fully fat-adapted, or know that you are not producing any ketones, then a case could probably be made for exogenous ketones in terms of enhancing performance.
Sorry to be so vague, but I hope all this helps you come to a decision.
What is it, by the way, that is knocking you out of ketosis? Something about the way you are phrasing things makes me wonder if there isn’t some kind of misunderstanding that could use a good clearing-up! Could be me, could be you, but if you were to write a bit more about what’s going on, people here might be able to help you better.
Hi Paul! Thanks for the swift response!
So my low carb diet was essentially grain-free - wheat, rice, pasta etc. Up until ketosis, however, I still ate fruits / veggies (including starches like potatoes) and even some beans at will. Ketosis changed that for me however, so I cut all that out as I would enter into keto, of course. My biggest obstacles with ketosis have been essentially the following:
- I live in South America, in an area where keto friendly foods require a bit of work to hunt down, and especially in the case of Macros that are keto-friendly, this is a bit of a struggle
- I dont lift weights or even really “work out” in a traditional sense, but I train Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, which is optimal for keto-based energy but makes intermittent fasting nearly impossible, since my train schedule is 6 days a week for 2 hours a piece. I train mostly in the mornings, so even if I go without breakfast, Im ravished by the time im done
- The atmosphere where I live makes it difficult to follow a keto diet when eating out or, worse, eating someone else’s cooking. In the US I think we have a bit more of an understanding that people have their own dietary needs and restrictions, but here its sometimes even offensive to refuse food from people at social gatherings and the like. My wife is a bit more understanding then most and knows that I will more often than not be unable to eat the food she cooks, much to her disdain, but its a bit more awkward during social events and eating out with clients at restaurants when I explain that I need to sit out a meal. And more often than not, thats because
- Protein is a staple - to a point of excess - in the cuisine here. A good amount of time, when Im knocked out of ketosis, its because I lost my 70-25-5 ratio and indulged in a bit too much protein. I use keto urine sticks to track myself regularly, so the change is measurable and usually means I have to work my way back into ketosis again, which I generally do via an intermittent fast, and so the cycle resumes…
Overall I love being in Ketosis, and I’m not saying that a ketogenic diet is impossible, but merely a struggle which sometimes seems to outweigh itself in terms of the work i put in vs the results I get. My idea was to use E.K.s as a pre-workout to stimulate ketosis for the duration of my training, since I always feel like I have a cleaner energy in ketosis thats also, of course, burning fat exclusively, or at least directly. Im trying to get a sense of the efficacy that this would have, though, since I know the debate about EKs is still very much open and a strong percentage of the consensus is that they’re useless or a waste, that they dont produce results or that they produce ketones that are essentially of empty value. In addition, assuming this could be a viable supplement for my diet and training, Im also trying to gauge what type of dietary regiment I should be following in the vicinity of taking EKs and training - the hours leading up to taking EKs, and my food consumption post-training.
Oy! What a situation to find yourself in!
Exogenous ketones ought to give you energy—I hope I didn’t sound as though I was questioning that—so as long as you understand that they are not putting your body “into ketosis” the way we mean it on these forums, and as long as you can afford the expense, they should help you knock out the exercises. It’s just—and please don’t be offended—well, I’m just not sure how much benefit the exercise will give you if you are not fat-adapted and able to take full advantage of that. Perhaps some of the body builders here can give you some advice that way. Of course you’ll still get the enjoyment and the stress benefits from working out, so there is that.
Okay, so I have limited experience with exogenous ketones. I bought a small tub of ketone salts a while back and have used maybe three or four scoops of the stuff. I know that I tolerate it, that it tastes so-so (not horrible, but not great either), but that the effect doesn’t last all that long. I know this because I took blood ketone readings prior to consuming EK and then several times after. Ketone levels are definitely increased, but don’t stay elevated for long.
It might be useful to fuel yourself as a pre-workout though. I keep meaning to try this myself.
One more thing - the small tub that I purchased cost nearly $60 !!! So it’s pretty expensive.
If you tolerate it, I think that MCT oil is a better option. When I consume the stuff on an empty stomach though, it gives me GI problems. Coconut oil contains a high percentage of medium chain triglycerides and is an even less expensive option. Consuming coconut oil might help you to balance out your macros (in favor of fat) more easily so that you can cut back on the protein somewhat.