You don’t have to go carnivore, but it’s certainly an option. I prefer it because I know my carbs are so low, I don’t need to worry about counting anything. It’s also fun to tell my vegan friends that I’m only eating the stuff they don’t eat.
Exhausted and foggy brained on Keto after almost 2 months
Baytowvin
(TJ Borden)
#26
If your protien is coming from real food (not powders), it would be difficult to get anywhere close to dangerous amounts. Plus, I believe it has to be consistently high for the damage to occur… basically don’t sweat it. The general recommendation is 1-1.5 grams per kg of lean body mass. That’s a big range and there’s plenty of debate about what the ideal level is.
It’s actually better to err on the side of over versus under. As far as timing, I don’t think it’ really matters. Many people on this forum regularly only eat one meal a day, and get their while hit of protein at one shot.
atomicspacebunny
(Bunny)
#27
Lightheaded on Keto & Intermittent Fasting? Do This…
Today Dr. Berg explains why you might be light headed on keto and intermittent fasting plan. The reason is a low blood volume and pressure issue so now that your not retaining fluid from the carbs any longer the new way to keep the fluid is to add sea salt to your water. Make sure you keep taking your potassium and electrolytes then the light headed feeling will go away.
Feel Dizzy When You Stand Up?
Dr. Berg talks about what it means when you get up too fast and feel dizzy. This indicates possible adrenal weakness, because the adrenal are not recovering.
Keto6468
(Karen)
#28
No,my nephrologist asked why I had so many ketones in my urine and I said I was on the ketogenic diet. He said oh OK is that working for you? I said yes so far I’ve lost 35 pounds that was back before I was closer to 40. He didn’t caution … he didn’t seem to be worried about it at all. It’s not a high-protein diet. Just higher fat
atomicspacebunny
(Bunny)
#31
I have some questions about this HPA-axis thing and those circadian rhythm like hooks, and all those biophysio-psychosocial (emotional) and physical environmental stressor thingies so broadly disscussed on the net about adrenal stress/fatigue:
- I went on the ketogenic diet for X reasons?
- What was I eating before I went on the ketogenic diet? e.g. diet consisted mainly of carbohydrates (heavily processed?) and limited in fat and protein?
- How often (randomness/snacking) did I eat and why did I eat?
- How much did I eat until I was satieted or satisfied?
- Feeling hungry & Adrenal stress/fatigue on intermittent fasting (IF), leptin, ghrelin & glycogen stores!
Hypothesis:
Let’s say we start a ketogenic diet and our source of information tells us eat this many times and this much of that?
Heavily armed with that information on what to eat I take that information and eat when I am hungry but at the same time I am practicing intermittent fasting in ratios and not purposely restricting my intake, I eat when I feel hungry (glycogen stores start depleting; liver/muscle), and I take my blood sugar readings, I write it down before I eat to make sure my hunger signaling is not simply psychological, then I watch how long it takes until I get hungry again and take the blood sugar readings again, then I start spacing my eating window out little by little so I am not stressing my metabolism (HPA-axis, circadian hooks etc.)? What I am in effect doing is graduating in increments the ability to adapt and not shock the body into (hyperglycemic?) dysregulation?
In other words you are not ‘starving yourself,’ it has to do with the neurological signaling or nueroplastic conditioning of the ‘reward centers of the brain’ that can induce adrenal stress?
References:
- Starving Yourself Feels a Lot Like Adrenal Fatigue: To the body, not getting enough calories is a very important signal. It means there’s a problem, some kind of starvation is happening. And it should begin preparing for the worst. So, as the body does this it has your back and it anticipates a future food shortage. It down regulates things like muscle building, fertility, energy, and immunity through many ways. At the cellular level, the metabolic processes that keep you alive begin to slow down, your hormones down regulate and blood pressure drops. Basically, your body slows everything down in an effort to keep you alive. Adrenal fatigue is very similar in terms of change in hormone production. In adrenal fatigue, as in starvation, your cortisol, DHEA and thyroid hormones are all out of balance. The two conditions feel almost the same. And from a measurement standpoint it would take not only a highly skilled practitioner but likely one who’s seen this before (a rare combo) to tell the difference. Unpacking the idea of starvation a bit more, let’s get into eating at a macro and micro level. If for instance you’re starving yourself of micronutrients like magnesium, then at least 300 processes in the body will be negatively affected. How would you know? Next time you’re having some blood tests done, ask for a Magnesium RBC blood test. This would do a lot to tell you where your levels are. There’s too many micronutrients to cover in this post and it might not even be something you should worry about. …More
- “…Studies show that fasting for up to 48 hours can actually boost metabolism by 3.6-14% (27, 28). However, if you fast much longer than that, the effect can reverse and metabolism can go down compared to baseline (29). One study showed that fasting every other day for 22 days did not lead to a decrease in metabolic rate, but the participants lost 4% of their fat mass, which is impressive for a period as short as 3 weeks (30). …” …More
- In conclusion, the present data indicate that starvation-induced enhancement of cortisol secretion in young healthy men is mediated by an increased glucocorticoid secretory burst mass, rather than changes in secretory burst frequency or duration or in cortisol half-life. In addition, fasting modifies the diurnal secretory pattern of cortisol by delaying maximal serum concentrations to the early afternoon. The inverse relationship between serum cortisol and GH responses to fasting suggests differential regulation of the corticotropic and somatotropic axis by the metabolic stress of fasting and/or feedback interactions between these two axes when they are both activated. (J Clin Endocrinol Metab 81: 692-699, 1996)
- “…Here we show the strength of the terminal synapse that controls epinephrine release is actually highly plastic. Fasting leads to a long-lasting increase in synaptic strength by a process that requires neuropeptide Y and Y5 receptors. In the absence of neuropeptide Y, synaptic strengthening is absent, epinephrine release is reduced, and the mice become hypoglycemic. These findings indicate that the response to fasting involves significant autonomic synaptic plasticity. …” …More
- “… Cortisol: Our brains don’t know if we’re stress or low in sugar: When we’re pumping out excess cortisol, our brain has no clue if we’re low in blood sugar or if we’re in a threatening situation so it tells us to be stressed out and crave energy… 2 birds with 1 stone. If we’re pumping out too much cortisol we’ll eventually produce more adrenaline as a boost and that will cause extreme stress symptoms like uncontrollable shaking, vomiting, irregular heart rhythm, fainting, etc… If we’re constantly pumping out too much adrenaline it will eventually contribute to burnout as well. …” …More
- “…colder climates may have relied more heavily on animal meats for food and warmer, wetter climates may have relied more heavily on plant food. This led to diversity in one specific gene responsible for the breakdown of carbohydrates, alpha-amylase (AMY1). AMY1 is a salivary enzyme that begins the breakdown of starch in the mouth and makes it taste sweet. …More
- “…In addition to metabolize carbohydrates, the liver produces glucose to be used by other tissues, from glycogen breakdown or from de novo synthesis using primarily lactate and alanine (gluconeogenesis). …” …More
juice
(Running from stupidity)
#36
Basically, you have to decide which theory you believe and go with that. I’m in the “not worried about too much protein #becausecarnivores” camp, but plenty of others are not.
Baytowvin
(TJ Borden)
#37
Then go with 121…or just don’t count and end up at …???
As near as I can tell, the fear about protien stems from two things:
-
Gluconeogenesis. That’s where the liver converts protien to glucose for the few systems in our bodies that actually need glucose and can’t efficiently use ketones. The fear is that excess protien will end up as excess glucose, through gluconeogenesis, and then end up being stored as fat. That’s not how gluconeogenesis works. Gluconeogenesis is demand driven, not supply. It’s happening constantly on a keto/low carb diet, but it happens based on your need for glucose, not based on having extra protien floating around.
-
Excess protien can stall ketosis. This freaks people out that are trying to constantly stay in ketosis and/or chase specific ketone readings. In this case, they’re correct that it can boot you out temporarily, but so what? If you’re using a ketogenic diet for therapeutic reasons where specific readings are needed, that’s different. For weight loss/metabolic repair, the ketone levels don’t really matter, and cycling in and out isn’t really a big deal either. In fact it’s natural, so long as you remain fat adapted.
The fact is, the SAD diet had the carb to fat balance thrown out. Protien was about right, and it seems most will eat what they need to intuitively.
PS- if it seems like I used the term gluconeogenesis a lot. It’s because I did. It’s the biggest word I know how to use correctly so I like to through it around to make myself sound smarter than I really am.
juice
(Running from stupidity)
#39
For me it’s like not being hungry very much, but n=1. I clearly didn’t eat enough yesterday because I skipped lunch because I was on the XBONE and not hungry, then only had a steak by itself for dinner 
juice
(Running from stupidity)
#41
This is not a fat-adaptation marker I’ve come across before 
Also, that’s LOT of water. You need to be careful you’re not leaching essential salts, etc, out as a result.
juice
(Running from stupidity)
#45
I don’t understand why you’re trying to flush ketones? As you become more fat-adapted you’ll just use them better, but they’re not something you need to actively work to get rid of.
Sure, it’s important to be well hydrated, but you don’t want to over do it. I’m not saying you are doing that, mind, I’m just mentioning it as a thing to beware of, as a lot of people don’t realise it can be a thing. In that situation, I’d also be looking at seeing if you need to be using some supplements in your water to ensure you’re not leaching out too many of the essentials. But I’m not a doctor, not even close to one.
juice
(Running from stupidity)
#47
OK, well, now you can stop worrying about that
And start worrying about maintaining good levels of essential elements
Drink when you’re thirsty, or can feel you’re heading that way.
juice
(Running from stupidity)
#49
Well, that sounds good, sodium is a difficult one to keep up at times.
juice
(Running from stupidity)
#54
I hate the smell of coffee, so that sorts that out. (Which is an issue when you live in Melbourne, it’s the coffee capital of the world.)
Baytowvin
(TJ Borden)
#57
Because you’re thirsty or because you think you need to?
If you’re thirsty, drink. If you’re not, don’t.
Regina
(Empress of the Unexpected)
#58
Several people have mentioned the mosquitos staying away when they are fat-adapted. Guess I’m not fat adapted because I am covered in bites.
Baytowvin
(TJ Borden)
#60
The water can dilute what the pee sticks tell you, but those are worthless anyway. The water isn’t going to affect your ketone production and use (at least as far as I know). It will, however, throw your electrolytes out of whack.
Baytowvin
(TJ Borden)
#63
If you’re not eating carbs, ketoacidosis isn’t a concern. That happens with SUPER elevated ketones AND blood glucose.
Baytowvin
(TJ Borden)
#66
you’re blaming the effect for being the cause. Don’t drink so much and you won’t have to pee all the time.
When I was diabetic I was thirsty ALL the time, and always had to pee. As in, I’d feel the urge while still walking out of the bathroom.
When you first start keto, it’s important to stay hydrated because your body is going through a LOT of rebalancing, but once you settle in, you don’t need as much water. A significant amount is needed for processing carbs, remove the carbs and you don’t need as much.
Just like you can trust your hunger and satiety signals once you’re eating what humans are designed to eat; you can trust your thirst signal. Water is ESSENTIAL for survival, so your body is very good at signaling when you need it. If you’re not thirsty, you don’t need water.