Excuse my pile of dead fairies

[ClaraJTeixeira]

For sure! I was just hoping to add different perspective in the whole calorie and fasting talk. I have done one 36 hr fast and for some reason gained 5 lbs and felt absolutely terrible. I found I just do better eating one or two meals a day and not restricting calories. This being after quite a bit of experimenting. She just may have a longer journey in finding out what version or combination of keto and fasting works for her.

[jennytoy1]

I could never eat this amount of calories and lose weight. Probably not even maintain! Same height and weight but 43 yo active female.
My only point being it’s just not “one size fits all” , even the keto calculator. She is not necessarily eating too little food. To say 1400 calories isnt enough as though its fact is inaccurate. and it will not slow her metabolism. cico does apply to keto it’s not the whole story, but it applies.

I think you are doing the OP a disservice by encouraging her not to fast. maybe encouraging her to try it as an n=1 is a better approach. afterall if it doesnt work out… ya just eat something.

[ClaraJTeixeira]

I simply don’t see fasting as a cure all or answer to everyone’s problems. I know many ketoers do but at some point we simply need to nourish our bodies with food that it needs and in the quantities it needs. Like I said above, I am just adding to the discussion and offering a different perspective. If all else fails, she can give it a try or simply just choose to ignore me. Either way I really don’t give a damn except that she ultimately finds better health. KCKO

[dlc96_darren]

I simply don’t see fasting as a cure all or answer to everyone’s problems.

I don’t know if anyone is recommending it as a cure all, but I’m starting to believe there are definite benefits to regular fasting. (And when I talk about fasting, my mind is thinking no more than 48 hours.)

I started the ketogenic diet with a two week fast (I still can’t believe it), but mainly did OMAD the rest of the time. I’ve done 1, 2 maybe 3 day fasts since then, but really just stuck to OMAD.

Recently I’ve plateaued and couldn’t get passed it, so I decided to try fasting again. With a little trial and error, I quickly figured out a way I could regularly fit a 48 hour fast into my week. I’ve done that for about three weeks now.

I managed to drop a few more pounds, but more importantly I feel better overall, like my body is cleansed somehow. I don’t feel deprived or malnourished in anyway, and when I eat, I eat til I’m full and satisfied.

Maybe not a cure all, but I do believe it’s beneficial.

[ClaraJTeixeira]

Definitely beneficial. I have no doubt the science behind it is solid. My husband can fast for days and not be affected badly.

[ClaraJTeixeira]

@jennytoy1 I am curious of what your thoughts are on this thread. (Will attach link) There are also many others where people (not just men) have raised their daily calories over 2,000 and even eaten 3,000 consistantly and have lost weight after a long plateu. 3 to 12 months stall.

Cue the flaming arrows and boiling oil I have a question about calories

OK Let’s look at what satiety is. It is a signal to tell you that you have just taken on enough fuel. I’m going to temporarily extend the definition to include “Not hunger” so as long as you are not hungry, let’s say you are perfectly satiated. And Let’s assume we’re all keto here and INSULIN is not taking energy off the table before our bodies can get to use it - or otherwise deranging us. So let’s try a thought experiment. What happens if you get to satiety - you have the right amount o…

[jennytoy1]

my opinion on the link is irrelevant. I cannot lose weight at that level of calories. It doesnt work for me. I have read lots of anecdotal stories on people experiencing the same thing…hence the multitudes of people that feel calories do matter. That’s why it’s such a debate I imagine.

If you, or even the OP, does some experimenting and finds they can lose weight at that higher level of calories…great! My concern was the factual way you presented your opinion to the OP as if this “1400 calories isnt enough food” was some sort of fact or some scientific number.

I really just dont understand what the link has to do with…well, anything.

edited to change a period to a comma

[ClaraJTeixeira]

I won’t bother you again. My apologies.

[jennytoy1]

It’s also possible my situation is different in that I have lost 94 pounds. Perhaps someone who hasnt already lost a significant amount of weight just never reaches the point I am at, where continued weight loss and/or maintainence occurs at a lower caloric level.

Still… assuming someone eating 1400 calories is eating too little and their metabolism will slow is just…inaccurate. sorry.

[jennytoy1]

nothing to apologize for. just conversation and “food for thought”.

[ClaraJTeixeira]

Hmm. Maybe I should explain my intentions a bit better. I was attempting conversation and food for thought but you found it a “disservice.” The original poster has as much weight to lose as I did and have easily kept off for 19 months eating at a slight surplus. I was merely sharing my experience with her in the hopes it would help her dilemma. The link had excellent points as to why eating at TDEE or above (especially before fasting of any kind) is a valid option to consider.

[jennytoy1]

ok, I give up

[CandyLindTX]

I got so cold I couldn’t touch myself. I type for a living, so I can’t wear gloves. Both my wife and kids were complaining how cold my hands were. I’ve done over 5 (7?) 4.5-5.5 day fasts, so many 3 day fasts I stopped counting them, etc. But I think it’s possible to lower your BMR too, and i think I did that.

@ctviggen Are you close to goal weight or on maintenance? If you want to fast for autophagy benefits, you may need to eat some fat to give your body the calories it needs but can’t access. If you go beyond the caloric threshold that your fat stores can release, you must eat fat to compensate. Cold extremities are a signal your body is taking protective measures to save energy for your brain & core. Either eat fat, or fast a shorter period.

This calculator (with comments by @richard) would help you determine if that is indeed what’s happening.

[ClaraJTeixeira]

This explains so well why I have such a hard time with extended fasting! I know the link was not directed toward me but thank you!

[CandyLindTX]

@ClaraJTeixeira & @jennytoy1, I think @JackieBlue will be thankful to see two such different experiences (and more from the rest of us) that have both given successful results, It shows that our way of life has many paths to success. I’m showing my age here - an old, OLD text-only adventure game called “Zork” mentions “a maze of twisty turny winding trails that all look the same” (or some such nonsense). Well, our paths don’t all look the same, but it’s apparently quite the adventure to find our way through!

[SlowBurnMary]

You’ve brought five humans into this world and, as a breastfeeding mother, put the first 20 pounds on each of them!

You’re definitely in a different hormonal land than your husband - try to be very kind to yourself about it, every single day. 5 pregnancies and 13 years of making milk and tandem nursing can take a toll on maternal nutrients.

You have a history of serious high risk prenatal health issues (pre-eclampsia, which is rooted in malnourishment and metabolic disorder) and most likely experienced subsequent medical interventions/shocks with your births and/or surgeries and various postpartum after effects. This, with as you said - little to no break from pretty regular bleeding cycles!

Your body’s been through A LOT on an essential level on behalf of reproduction and mothering of your cubs. It’s highly likely that the fairies are primarily concerned about restoration and rejuvenation as priorities for your recovery of wellness, involving many unseen, visceral, and physiological processes. Give yourself at least four seasons on keto before drawing conclusions on body recomposition - it takes time for females, esp for females with complex hormonal histories or present midlife Change.

Body recomposition is about hormonal healing - a massive RESET button in your case. Based on your reproductive history as a high carb sugar burner I wouldn’t be surprised if you’ve had some long term nutrient issues and hormonal imbalances that involve some time to heal. Restoring muscle and bone while losing fat may not show much change on any scale for some body types - your best friend may be a measuring tape once a month on key areas.

When it comes to weight loss - body recomposition - most people don’t think about hormones but it’s all about hormones: the chemical molecules that govern nearly all aspects of your body fat. From how much you store and where it’s stored, to cravings, appetite, gut bacteria, and even addictive eating patterns. Both keto and fasting are fabulous for hormonal balancing (focus on becoming 100% fat adapted first then fasting will happen naturally - it may take 6 months, or even a year for some people to become 100% fat adapted). Being overfat is the result of major hormonal misfires involving seven metabolic hormones —cortisol, thyroid, estrogen, testosterone, growth hormone, leptin, and insulin. The body adjusts by increasingly raising your hormone levels and ultimately slowing down your metabolism. You may well find after a number of seasons on keto, your excess breast fat does transform as hormonal balance heals. Plenty of women on this forum have posted about losing boob and butt fat after some time. I myself have lost 3 inches from my bust and also 3 inches from my low hips in 16 months of keto - meaning I’ve lost most all my midlife fat gain and am back to my mostly fit 30s body. Postpartum metabolic healing may take longer - a few years - you have to give it time. Slow, intense strength training can help you speed your progress though.

It’s complex, but there is a delicious way to heal via whole keto foods and further boosting your mitochondrial processes and metabolism through slow burn weightlifting 1-2x a week for 20 minutes (for more on that see the books by low-carb/keto trainers Slow Burn Fitness Revolution, and Body By Science).

Nutrient density is super critical for you - and you may need some serious supplementation for your first 4 seasons on keto, to help restore your functional levels of things in order to maximise your metabolic healing. Even on a keto diet - most meats and veg are lacking nutrients that they used to have before the soil was depleted and before most all meat was grain-finished.

***Avocados are a great source of nutrients to add to your plate! Rich in potassium — 975 mg in one avocado — as well as vitamins and good raw fats. Potassium helps with waste removal during healing and detox. Rather than a fat bomb dessert or snack - you may find that eating one or more avocado a day (with plenty of sea salt) satisfies better.

***Speaking of salt - trace minerals in ancient sea salt ( Utah cave salt, Himalayan, etc) are hugely important for electrolytic functionality and charging the body’s battery so to speak. Dr. Phinney recommends upwards of 3-5grams of sodium a day (which is around 4 1/2 teaspoons of table salt). Salt is essential for deep hydration, it helps the body utilize water effectively - otherwise water just passes through the body quickly. You shouldn’t be peeing 7-8 times a night - this indicates that you may be drinking too much water - or that you need to greatly increase your salt intake/electrolytes so that your body can assimilate the water you’re drinking. To make tap water tasty, I use a water filter on my tap water that removes 99% of crap (including nanparticles like hormones, which matter a lot when doing hormonal healing) - the Epic Water filters are easy to install and relatively cheap. I also add lemon juice and salt to my water and try to drink a cup of bouillon/bone broth per day

***Supplementing with EPA and DHA (high doses of fish oil - a tablespoon a day), GLAs (black currant seed oil), and biggies like magnesium (angstrom, the most highly absorbable kind), and its counterpart Vit. D3 (best absorbed by soaking in sunlight for 10-15 minutes every day - with closed or mostly eyes, looking up at the sun) and also Vit. A (best found in whole form via cod liver oil) - and Vit C (necessary for collagen uptake, the liposomal form is highly absorbable) they all work synergistically.

Much more on ancestral nourishment can be found through reading functional keto-paleo nutritionist and personal trainer Nora Gelgaudas’s book Primal Body Primal Mind. I just finished reading it finally - it’s packed with relevant tidbits. She was one of several experts featured in the amazing keto documentary film that came out last year called The Magic Pill - also recommended, as it shows diverse stories including various midlife and older women transforming their health. (Your bodybuilding 18 year old might also really like the keto documentaries Cereal Killers and Run On Fat - which are focused on athletes!) Also check out Sara Gottfried MD’s books - she’s a Harvard-MIT educated physician who has helped thousands of women address the root hormonal causes of slow body recomp - using a functional medicine low-carb/verylowcarb approach and elimination diet. She has 3 or 4 books geared specifically for female hormonal healing.

[Rachelg]

I love data, and I personally weigh every morning to get those data points. If you do this, you cannot let yourself freak or get down about random weight fluctuations! If you can manage that, it can be incredibly useful for learning the ins and outs of your personal weight loss.

Here are some of the things I have learned:

1. I lose better when I do not restrict calories.
2. Anything more than a trace amount of sweeteners typically prevents me from losing.
3. My body does better with more vegetables vs less.
4. If I have too much cheese in one day, I will temporarily gain.
5. When I follow the same eating pattern for more than a few days, weight loss slows and then stops.
6. Fasting at least 1x48 a week gives me the most consistent results for weight loss over time.

I really recommend that you don’t change everything all at once, but try one change at a time and gather data to see what works and what doesn’t.

Finally, I’ve heard and read that some women don’t lose anything the first few months on keto, and it is hypothesized that the body is prioritizing healing and hormone balancing ahead of fat loss.

Best of luck to you!

[AmandaJ]

I love your honest post! I have felt that way so many times. I also really appreciate everything everyone has thrown into this , but here is another thing to think about. So you first said:

sleeping better…dreams like going to the movie theater every night.

and then you said:

drink lots of water (and still get up to pee 7 or 8 times a night! When does that hellish little perk stop?!)

To me that is not good sleep (some people who dream “alot” are waking in REM and thus not getting solid sleep) and since sleep is very important to wt loss, this might be one area to look at.

I wish you the best!

[Rajseth]

All these measurments really tell us is that we are at least producing ketones. But if we are not eating carbohydrate and are not dead, then we knew that already

Hey - @PaulL that’s my line!!

[TtBugg]

I am intrigued about the bacon and eggs for 3 days? There are virtually no carbs there- is that the point?