Evidence that oral nattokinase gets past the stomach?

(BuckRimfire) #1

Since my CAC anc CIMT are not perfect (not terrible, but could be a bit better), I decided to give the K2/D3/Nattokinase treatment a whirl for a few months.

However, I feel like a bit of a chump taking an enzyme by mouth. The stomach is evolved to degrade most proteins with acidity and proteolytic enzymes (although those proteolytic enzymes themselves are apparently somewhat resistant to that problem), so it seems unlikely that nattokinase will survive that treatment.

Then, assuming the claimed effect of nattokinase happens outside the gut, it would have to be transported across the intestinal epithelium somehow to actually get into the body. (Topologically, the contents of your gut are outside your body!) I don’t know enough about the process to be sure, but I’m a little doubtful that intact proteins are taken up and then released on the other side of those cells.

Does anyone know of any evidence of nattokinase actually being active in the body? I have two different bottles of this product and have been taking it daily for weeks, but I’m a little skeptical that it can actually work…

(KM) #2

Well, nattokinase is derived from natto, which is a food. I would have to assume that if the benefits of natto are true, then taking the concentrated enzyme would still have the same benefit, unless there’s something about the makeup of natto in its natural form that allows the enzyme to be transported to where it is utilized that is missing in the supplement.

(Bob M) #3

I make natto myself at times, and I even wonder for that how much gets past the stomach to where it needs to go. I’m assuming that since it’s a bean, more would get there, but I’m not sure.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #4

Does the bottle say anything about an “enteric coating”?

(Joey) #5

:thinking: Ok, let’s ask ourselves … how does vitamin K2 present naturally in foods get past the stomach?

It’s an incredibly acidic place, which clocks in at around 1.5 pH. (Too much reflux too often burns holes in the esophagus.)

But the function of such a hostile acidic environment is to break things down chemically in order to make them bio-available for further digestion and absorption.

I recall that studies in Japan between women in one region vs those in another attributed significantly better health outcomes to those areas where natto consumption was prevalent. If so, whatever health benefits are to be had seem to have survived those women’s acidic stomachs.

(KM) #6

Right. The only other possibility here is that the fiber of the beans (or maybe the “natto snot”) transports the enzyme beyond the stomach, whereas without that matrix, it just gets destroyed, in which case there would be no point in taking a supplement without an enteric coating or other protective mechanism.

(BuckRimfire) #7

No, both brands have what appear to be conventional capsules. One says the capsule is cellulose and the other says “vegan capsule” which is probably the same thing. I’ll bet a dollar they both dissolve immediately.

(BuckRimfire) #8

Huh. The YouTube algorithm just showed me this link (possibly because I posted the same question I posed here in a comment to Ben Bikman video about nattokinase), which has lots of references in the description box:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WlfUANTrcM

Among those references is this paper:
https://www.nature.com/articles/srep11601

In the Discussion, under Bioavailability it says that nattokinase has been measured in the blood of rats and humans after an oral dose, in other studies cited. I didn’t read those papers, but it sounds like my concerns that I am wasting my time and money taking this stuff may be unfounded. Yay!

All hail the algorithm!

(Bob M) #9

I’ve seen people argue that much of the longer lives of Japanese is due to natto.

Reminds me that I need to make some. Not too hard, but you have to soak the beans 12+ hours, then cook for a while in the instant pot, then put in the oven at 100 F for 36 hours. Or at least that’s how I do it. And I have to remember that my oven only lets you go 24 hours, so I have to reset it sometime.

(Joey) #10

Got a good recipe that’s worked well for you in the past?

(Joey) #11

But how do they get the rats to eat this stuff?!

(Bob M) #12

I’ve been using this one:

I’m using organic US soybeans. I like smaller beans, but the ones I bought were a bit larger than I liked (and you buy a large bag).

When I soak the beans, I soak them in a tsp of baking soda. (Hmm…maybe I should add more according to this?)

https://cysoda.com/article/how-much-baking-soda-to-add-to-soak-beans

I use an instant pot, and increase the time to 15 minutes (from 10 minutes), then let it depressurize naturally. This takes way longer than you think it should…maybe an hour or longer, including the heating and cooling.

While that is working, I heat up a very large pot of water and put everything in boiling water. It’s good to have thinner layers of beans, so I use two larger glass containers with plastic lids.

One the natto starter is added, mixed, and then put in the containers, I do put on the cheesecloth, then put this in my oven, which has a proofing mode that will keep it at 100F.

He says it takes 24 hours, but for my system, it takes 36 hours. At 24 hours, it doesn’t have much white stuff on it at all. And it’s 36 hours mainly because I’m not home while it’s cooking most times.

My oven only lets me go 24 hours, so I have to turn off proofing then turn it on again to get it to go 36 hours.

(Joey) #13

@ctviggen Wow! You have a serious natto production regimen under your belt!

I here thought I was handy in home food fermentation. Very impressive.