Everything in Moderation


(Pascal Menezes) #1

I have come across several people who actually mock those of us trying to promote the KETO lifestyle among friends and family. Such people are basically in self-denial of their medical condition and do not want to change the way they eat and so for them everything in moderation is the way to go. My answer to them is as follows:

Those in self-denial of their medical condition, conveniently choose moderation, without even understanding how to do moderation; do they even know to define moderation?. They are happy to suppress their symptoms by medications, while being oblivious to the fact that the root cause of their medical condition does not get addressed at all and will continue to be ‘moderately’ sick and never be able reverse the disease. I say to them, listen, you people, you need drastic action, not moderation. Moderation, if at all, should have started 30 years ago - it’s too late now - especially when you have been diagnosed.


(Bob M) #2

Some people can do “moderation”. The vast majority can’t, is my guess. I’ve known people who can eat one tortilla chip and put the bag away. For most people, 1/4, 1/2 or more of the bag is a “serving”.

I’m very good at not eating things that are in my house. Ice cream, for instance. But if I have some ice cream, I’ll want more and more. I think more people are like me than like those who can eat a 1/4 cup serving and put the ice cream away.


(Pascal Menezes) #3

Bob,
When someone is diagnosed with, say, diabetes, it is as a result of overconsumption of carbohydrates over a long period (decades!). If the same person’s healing strategy is ‘moderation’, it just means that he continues eating the same poison (carbohydrates), although a moderate amount, that resulted in diabetes in the first place.

It is not whether someone can do moderation or not; what I am saying is that moderation as a strategy cannot be used when you have been already diagnosed with metabolic disease.


(Carnivore for the win) #4

It doesn’t matter what other people say, especially people who have no experience with what you are going through.

It’s a crab bucket situation, whenever anyone makes a positive change. There are others who get jealous or scared and try to drag them back down. KCKO


#5

I feel ya on what you are saying.

But thing it is ‘they’ are them and you are ‘you’ ya know.

Some will moderate back to a ‘safer zone’ thru their eating and be ok with just that. Their ‘degree of sickness’ won’t ever be your definition of what they want their life to be ya know. They will be fine with moderate degrees of sickness and nothing will change that. We can’t be them…we can post go for the gold on your health issues, show keto and paleo etc eating plans to people but the ol’ ‘you can lead a horse to water’ comes into play. Many can moderate down their med issues a good bit and some can’t handle any changes to help themselves, but in that end, we don’t have any say in it at all.

I sure get what you are saying on all this, but you can’t be them ever and equal any of a person’s real med issues or their physiology …so moderation to some degree in one’s menu if controlled could make big changes to someone’s med issues maybe? so there are degrees of what moderation can do to help someone. But we can’t be obsessed over what another puts in their mouth. Some people will never change, some will give it a slight go, some go all in and find true health etc on their changes…but it is up to them. But I do think moderation with good control and fresh food choices really could help alot of people change some of their med conditions, of course it is their degree of sickness they are tackling also in their lives. Moderation can still be a real tool for many.


(Pascal Menezes) #6

You are absolutely right; that’s exactly what happens; I think they are more scared than jealous!:rofl:


(Pascal Menezes) #7

Thank you. I agree with you. My mission, however, is to only plant the Keto-seed with an express suggestion that they should not do Keto because I have told them about it. They must do their own research and be comfortable with the evidence and only then try it out.


(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #8

You can tell them to take cocaine in moderation. Or heroin.

Always in moderation!


#9

I agree. We shouldn’t eat things “in moderation” but in the right amounts and that amounts is sometimes zero or as little as possible. Oh and the latter is often less than what people think… So “oh but I can’t help eating zillion grams of carbs every day” just isn’t true - or if it is, okay, their funeral after some suffering… I am not disciplined BUT if it’s about my health so very much, I could sacrifice a lot let alone changing my woe drastically (that wouldn’t be a real sacrifice as long as I still can have a nice woe. I can’t do it without a very good reason but if there is motivation…).
I still believe people just don’t care about their health as they don’t want to lift a finger for it. Okay, maybe visiting a doctor and popping pills. But more? Nope. Or even if they change their woe, it’s just too little! A relative of mine has diabetes, obesity and yeah, she eats less sugar and white flour but that’s about it. And it’s not enough.


#10

very true, spread that word and some are gonna jump in and change and others it will be in one ear and out the other. Cool and it least some of that word is out there to better health!


(Pascal Menezes) #11

Shinita,
Thanks. I am sure some of us (certainly, I am one of them) can proudly claim, “I have reversed my diabetes!”. Can anyone else, who is currently fully diabetic and is doing “everything in moderation”, will ever be able to make such a claim?


(Joey) #12

This thread brings two delightful sayings to mind:

“All things in moderation, including moderation.”
“All things in moderation, except moderation.”

Such advice is priceless, in moderation :nerd_face:


(Old Baconian) #13

It always intrigues me that people connected to a newly-sober alcoholic will advise drinking in moderation—when he or she would not be an alcoholic in the first place, if moderate drinking were an option.

The same with carbohydrate addiction. If moderate carb intake were an option for us, we wouldn’t be hypertensive and diabetic cardiac patients!

This topic always makes me want to tell certain people to take a moderate dose of cyanide—or strychnine. . . .


(Bob M) #14

I’ve seen people on Twitter who claim they have done this. I think certain people can do this. Not many, though. But it depends.

I bought this book:

In it, she has a 10 question quiz to see how addicted to food you are. I scored zero, though if she had “sometimes/maybe/rarely” in addition to yes or no, I might have scored a bit higher. 10 was the highest, one point each question.

I think a lot of that is because I started body building when I was 15-16 (57 now), and starting treating food as a tool. A tool to get bigger. So, even back then, I was going on all tuna diets, high protein, and – sadly – low fat. Then went on Pritikin (very low fat). Food was a way to meet whatever goals I had at the time.

But even I have a hard time controlling myself with certain food. Put an ice cream cake in my freezer, and I can avoid eating it with zero issues. Give me a piece, and I’ll eat two, and want another…


(UsedToBeT2D) #15

I too have reversed my diabetes. No moderation here.


#16

I absolutely agree but most humans in life WANT foods in their day to day ya know…as in find me the best of the best moderation against too many carbs WITHOUT interrupting my food desires in life.

Many can’t go Keto or ever into something like into zc…heck many can’t even do a ‘moderate lower carb’ plan but again, some can do it. My mom is 93 and eats carbs and is healthy as a horse mostly and in the end, she moderates. She is one who can have 1/2 a cookie and done. She is one who portions out her plate for meals and once eaten, done. Never had a weight issue. Never had any disease ever to handle so there are unicorns out there…but also my mom DID not eat the ■■■■ food that is processed today ya know. She grew up on real food, there was no fast food places on the corner or 10 grocery stores with shelves packed with boxed foods so? Maybe it is more today vs. older days and literally boils down to the quality of our foods. I really that is a key factor.

Boils down to convenience, lifestyle and quality of our current food out there. I think many can’t walk from that convenience and take control of eating real food vs crap. The crap tastes SO darn good and is designed in labs for just that.


(Pascal Menezes) #17

Congratulations, And I agree, ‘moderation’ has no place in HEALING/REVERSING health conditions. People who promote moderation want the best of both worlds; It does not work that way. One can either reverse and be on a journey of healing, or be propped up with medication for as long as she/he does not come to her/his senses.


#18

very true for some. not all but key is what health issues does one face they deem ‘ok thru a pill or shot’ such as diabetes or other med issues thru a pill and what they want personally in life? We can’t change that ever! For anyone! Sad but true.

My mother in law back in the day, the Dr said if you eat right you won’t go on diabetic pills, nope. If you don’t change and not eat the bread and sugar crap you will be on shots. Nope. On shots. From 70 to now she has been medically trashed and not living any quality of good retirement life cause the failure is imminent and coming as it is for her… Now at 80 she is falling apart…all sugar related thru circulatory and kidney disease issues and eye issues thru diabetic stuff so…she was given ALL the info and I chimed in to 0 avail…so…at best we say live and let live and the big pharma will always have people paying for those convenience meds til that day, when the body says DONE and they wished they had?

but hey, life moves forward very fast now, so do you as you must do ya know…give out good advice and if it sticks it sticks, if it doesn’t, then? it is what it is out there in crazy land


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #19

The fly in the ointment here, so to say, is individual variability. Some folks are lucky either specifically in the genetic and/or some unknown ‘cosmic’ factor. Examples of such folks get trotted out whenever anyone makes a generalization, even if scientifically validated such as eating a high level of carbs will result in metabolic dysfunction for most people and eating keto/low carb will fix the problems for most people. Immediately follows the response - “Well so and so ate Hershey’s chocolate bars every day of her/his life and died at 95 years of age in perfect health”. And that singleton example is used to invalidate the scientifcally validated generalization. There is an ongoing discussion here about the long-term validity of keto based on evidence of longevity in some people who do not eat keto. It’s fine - and for that matter scientifically sound - to question everything and demand evidence for every assertion. But also keep in mind that we’re all similar in the general but very different in many of the specifics.


(Pascal Menezes) #20

Your mother is the best example of a person practicing moderation. She has been doing it all her life and as you say she is, at 93, “healthy as a horse”. The modern world has an abundance of food and the food industry employ food scientists to make the food taste even better by processing it with chemicals which tricks our brain and makes us crave food and overeat.

With all this processed tasty foods, available everywhere, I had not been as disciplined as your mother and that had resulted in my diagnosis of T2. I am now acknowledging my bad behavior, regret my sugar addiction, indulging in gluttony, and eating at frequent intervals. So, for me, now is not the time to start practicing moderation, now is the time to take drastic action.

And to get results, you really don’t need to go big-bang KETO at the beginning. You just start by enjoying healthy fats, stop eating processed foods and avoid carbs as much as possible. Just no excuses if you want to be on a health journey.