I trained for over a year like this while eating minimal carbs and while I managed…it wasn’t great. I realized later that I was not doing “endurance training” at all. I was pushing into high heart rate zones every time I got on the bike. I switched to do MAF riding instead and it’s going better, but I think I majorly jacked up my hormones and adrenals. After listening to Zach on a few podcasts I realized that I should have had more carbs for the days I was doing intense rides (vs endurance zone rides).
Endurance with Keto
DAB
(Thurston )
#42
Are you racing MX, Enduro or Hare Scrambles?
I feel your pain on the injury. I broke 4 ribs fractured my pelvis and punctuated a lung in a crash. I went for an ambulance ride and spent 3 days in the hospital. I have no idea how you finished the first Moto and also did another. Kudos on that one.
Please keep posting on your results with your experiences, I’m thinking of buying a bike and doing a few J Day races.
Photogdave
#44
Hare-scrambles and Enduro.
I laid on ground and after almost a 1:30sec, I got back on and was close to pulling off.
The crash happened real close to parking area. My daughter was there(she also races).
I try to lead by example when it comes to pushing though adversity. People simply quit to easy.
I was NOT 100% on broken ribs at the moment. Just knew it hurt real bad.
As I started passing the ribboned area, she was there. I just rolled on the gas and went on.
Adjusted riding a bit to get through that moto.
After some pain meds and an hour break between moto, I went back out.
Wish I had pushed another 5% harder, I could have won the race.
Another thing I try to teach her. You have to push even when you don’t know potential outcome.
1st lap I was 11sec from leader, 2nd lap 2 sec behind leader, 3rd lap 1 sec behind the leader.
I can find 15sec in any race.
But I was worried about puncturing a lung in another fall. It’s obvious I like to fall on that side.
The next day, worried about this weekends race, I went to ER for X-ray to try and rule out potential danger.
They said it was torn connective tissue and no breaks. Eat pain meds, carry on.
Got a call Tuesday morning at work, doctor in a panic, tells me be careful, they missed the diagnosis.
Have fractured 5th,6th, and 7th rib 
.
Puts things for this weekend in a different position.
I’m hoping to be able to race Sunday.
The hurricane may have caused the race to be postponed anyway.
There’s a bridge across swamp area that leads to 75% of woods.
Nathan_Toben
(Nathan Toben)
#45
Wishing you a quick recovery, @Photogdave. In this era of convenience and entitlement, your resilience is a great model for your daughter. cheers
DAB
(Thurston )
#47
Ok so what’s going on with your diet and racing? Any updates? That hurricane could’ve put a damper on your season.
Photogdave
#48
I’m glad you asked. This is going to be a lengthy comment but hang in there. I hate the short one or two line comments that don’t answer a whole lot of questions.
I completely forgot to come back and update. When they postponed the race for the hurricane so much time elapsed to the next actual scheduled race it just got away from me.
So the next scheduled race wish to be in a national forest in Ovett Mississippi. It’s always been my favorite race of the season and I was kind of bummed out that I would have to skip it. My ribs were just not cooperating this time.
So they had this one broken down into four test sections. Each about 13 miles except for the last one which was only 6 miles.
I told myself that I was going to trail ride the last section just because I didn’t want to miss the whole thing. Days leading up to the race started to feel like I would not even be able to do that. I decided I would take my bike and play it by ear.
Of course everyone around me knew if I took my bike I would probably end up doing more than I said I was going to do.
Well Sunday arrives and I feel OK. At race registration they tell me I can’t do just the last test section. If I’m only going to do one I have to start the race with test one. Which is a 13 mile test.
Then they drop another bomb on me and say by the way if you do test one, you have to do test two. The reason is, test one ends 12 miles away from camp. And you’re not allowed to ride back on the main roads. So you have to do test two to get back to camp.
So now we’re up to 23 miles that I had not planned on doing.
Trying to shorten the story up a little, I felt great and I ended up racing the entire race. 45 miles in total. Actually ended up having a pretty good day.
So now the rescheduled raced that was canceled in Florida due to the hurricane happened this past Sunday.
I raced that one and had an even better rate. I believe I probably had one of the best rides I’ve had in three years. Possibly ever. I’m still sore LOL.
Now to the diet related stuff…
Energy levels were very good for both of the last races. I did not feel like I hit the wall. I’m still struggling with arm strength, but I believe through the keto diet and not exercising properly that I lost a good bit of muscle tone.
So what have I been doing differently. Well I spoke with Hans Schmid on the telephone after I posted all of this stuff originally. He was nice enough to actually call me so we could speak.
He was a guy that I found here on the forum
I spoke with him for probably 45 minutes. He is a pro level rider that rides the same type of races that I race, we are same height and same starting wait and ending wait . The only difference is I’m not a pro level rider yet LOL
So basically he did agree that he has found in these long races that he has to “carb up “
There just hasn’t been any way to get around that.
And furthermore I think one of the bigger problem is that I’ve been having was not entirely related to carbohydrate intake. It was really more of a caloric intake.
What I think people fail to realize is, when you’re on a ketogenic diet you unintentionally lose calories. By shear design and nature of what you’re eating now, naturally you are fool but it probably a third of the calories you were normally eating.
Let’s face it, broccoli and zucchini and green beans and cabbage just does not have the amount of calories in it that a potato has.
And at least for me, there is absolutely no way I could eat enough food on this diet and stay in Keto to get my calorie intake high enough. I would be vomiting LOL
So one thing I’ve noticed that started happening when I was in strict ketogenic diet mode, I would sometimes only eat one time a day. Because that’s all I cared about eating. I just did not want any more food. My energy levels actually got worse after I originally posted this. I think I started a snowball effect. I got to a point where I was eating so little, that I started to feel bad. And then I would eat even less. There was a point where I almost checked myself into the hospital I was so down on energy and I was so weak.
I was working out of town and I decided to try something. The night before I went to a restaurant and I had a standard steak and a broccoli as a side. Ate about half of the steak and about three bites of broccoli and I just did not want anymore.
So the next day I decided to go completely different. I went to red Robin and I got a bacon cheddar cheeseburger. And a huge order of fries. Well guess what, I destroyed that entire plate LOL
But I didn’t really feel any better over the next day. So I took Hans advice and I started to carb up A few days before the race.
I started adding in more carbohydrates. Things like serving of lima beans. I never did go to anything like macaroni and cheese. Just lima beans, or black eyed pea’s. Or a potato.
My weight has not increased at all, but I do feel tons better right now. And basically what I’m doing at this point is, some days I have some carbohydrates and some days I do not. Like yesterday I had a Subway sandwich. But for dinner I had a low-carb dinner. And I think my calorie intake for the day total still under 1500
Now that I don’t have to do any racing until the beginning of November I will probably get back a little more strict on keto for a week or so. And then I will just carb up leading up to the last race.
I’m still staying away from sugar. And I’m still staying away from empty carbohydrate things like candy bars and macaroni and cheese things of that nature.
Also as an edit. Hans Schmid and I were talking about the caloric intake being a factor probably more than carbohydrate. Think about it like this, you’re not going to drive from the East Coast to the West Coast on one tank of fuel.
You’ve got to make sure your calorie intake will match your output.
You can easily burn 3000 cal in one of these races. Eating a banana and oatmeal the morning before a race just will not cut it.
You have to eat a good bit before, and you have to eat during.
I cannot physically eat enough food for breakfast to get through one of these races. So my last race in Florida I ate pizza the night before LOL.
The morning of, I had two packets of oatmeal, two bananas, and a sausage biscuit from McDonald’s with a hash brown. And I still only had 800 cal for breakfast.
He pointed out green belly makes these meals that are like 700 cal just in that little packet. That is something that I’m going to try and report back
All I know is this, I did the full race and I did not lose energy. My muscles got tired, but I had the energy to do more.
The muscle thing is just something I need to work on in the gym
Photogdave
#49
Guys I’m sorry for such a long comment. I will try to keep them shorter next time. I look at forums all the time and I see these little short comments that doesn’t answer a whole lot. And then things never get up dated for a year or two. So I’m trying to give as much information as I can for people that are actually doing what I’m doing trying to learn how to fix this.
And I know I might go a couple days because of work without being able to answer questions that people might have
So at least this way there’s something there
DAB
(Thurston )
#50
I wouldn’t worry about the post length, you had a lot to say. I’m glad you could get a few races under your belt after your injury and the lack of energy race time can be compensated for with some carbs for endurance.
Good luck and keep us posted with results.
andy71
#51
Your might want to buy the Phinney and Volek book “The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance”
its specifically on keto and athletic performance.
atomicspacebunny
(Bunny)
#52
Some peeps are breaking records all the time on keto, what would take four men to accomplish takes two men!
More energy, strength, endurance and speed (by 15 min); increases without carbs (training wheels) the longer you remain keto!
Example: I didn’t just beat my best time running on a keto diet — I crushed it
Carbs/sugars mess with your oxygen uptake!
References:
- “… A caloric deficit typically causes us to lose weight, but if we eat sufficient amounts of protein and do strength training, we can retain or increase muscle mass. …” “…The body should then burn more body fat compared to a calorie restricted diet. As such, keto may have a metabolic advantage” (Volek et al., 2004). …More
Exercise and keto. Help please
Photogdave
#53
I guess everybody is different. Zach Bitter holds the American record for I believe 100miles?? Running in under 12 hours and runs in Keto. But he does say that he carbs up for some of those races. Even drinks Coke during the race.
All I know is when I try to compete at this level as of right now I’m nowhere even close when I do it in ketosis.
Maybe that would change after another year. I know it takes a long time for your body to become completely efficient to do endurance sports in ketosis.
But as of right now it just absolutely does not work for me.
Aside from that I love being in ketosis. And my plan was to stay there and make sure a ramp up the week before a big event.
The thing that worries me is, if I keep doing what I’m doing will I ever become 100% efficient and burning fat during endurance sport.
Does this coming in and out of ketosis hurt you or not.
That’s yet to be seen. But I cannot afford to keep trying it and coming up short. It cost me a lot of money to do a race season, and I absolutely hate sucking.
Maybe wrestling a dirtbike around in 98° heat from 9 AM to 3 PM uses more calories than running.
I know it keeps the heart rate high for a long time.
And that’s another thing, it might not have been so much that I was doing it in Ketosis, it might have been a calorie deficit.
But I don’t know how to eat enough calories to do what I’m doing and remain in Ketosis. The amount of food that I would have to take in would be enough to feed three people
Everyone’s input is highly welcome LOL