Endurance with Keto

(Nicole Silvia) #21

Yes, that’s my impression as well. Makes sense to me.

Thanks! I’ll listen to the podcast later :slight_smile:

#22

Yes Nicole you’re right 6-8weeksbfat adaption. But could take 12 months before your body is efficient enough to compete in ketosis
Problem is I’m comparing my self to Zach and Nathan, and I’m no where even close to their level.
I don’t even work out beyond pushups and body weight squats.
And I also think I need to learn to fuel during these races.
I haven’t been much if any at all.
I eat dinner the night before.
Then, breakfast the day of, and like yesterday, I went pretty hard for 30miles only putting in propel between 7mile laps.
One stop I ate a decent helping of crappy watermelon from Walmart(never again)
But other than that, bfast was 2 eggs, 2 bacon, 1 sausage, and 3/4 helping of hash browns.
That’s it.
I think I need to concentrate on fuel during the event.
I’m expecting my body to just go as long as I want with no fuel.
Even Zach says in podcast they use Gu and other forms of fuel during races.

#23

I think you’re probably right
Need some more marathon folks in here like Nathan to dish some feedback on their methods
We’re all different so one standard won’t work for all

(Nicole Silvia) #24

Huh, I’d like to know more about this 1 year thing. I hate to think my performances will suffer for that long.

Zach said they use Gu during races?

Ok, that’s what I meant. So if I was planning a 1hr + run, I’d take a GU 15 min before and every 45 min. until done. I can’t imagine it would ruin my ketosis. I dont bother fueling short runs.

I’m still not sure what to do with strength training, if anything.

I heard dates were the best natural replacement for GU, but GU is good stuff imo

(Thurston ) #25

You expect some diet alone to provide you with the energy needed to do a 6hr enduro without any training during the
week? If you had the energy to do it on your previous diet why do keto?

(Edith) #26

You really should not need Gu once you are fat adapted, especially for an hour run. It does not take an entire year to get fat adapted. You should notice your energy when you exercise improving some time around the 8 week mark, give or take. It won’t be a “Wow!” It will be a gradual, “Hummmm, my muscles are feeling less and less lead-like.” I think the year marker is for optimal performance.

#27

For me it’s way longer than an hour. And it’s pretty high intensity. Heart rate sustained around 180 mark for a while.
I’ve heard here high level atheletes like Zach Bitter say it can take a year for your body to reach the level of competing in ketosis
Fat adapted in 8 weeks yes. But for your body to become efficient enough in ketosis to process fat for fuel fast enough during endurance competitions without carb loading, could take a year to 15months.
I’m still not able to compete in ketosis and been sub 15g a day since 5/28/18

(Nicole Silvia) #28

So the conclusion is what? No carbs to enhance performance? Or yes?

If no, then it takes almost a year before we can really do well?

Is there anyone with experience to chime in?

The 1 hr mark is the recommendation of course, from non keto athletes. I don’t know what keto athletes do. Of course we can go past 1 hr, you don’t feel it until after you’re already depleted and bogging down. That’s why if you don’t time fueling right, it messes things up. If you fuel when you’re already feeling depleted, than you waited too long.

(Nicole Silvia) #29

Hold the phone! Looks like there’s a thread “distance running on keto” that may help :slight_smile:

#30

No conclusion yet
I plan to race this weekend and try carb fueling some and also eating during race. We have a 1hr race followed by a 45min pause, then an hour again. So I’ll have time to refuel
I can report back but that’s just me, one person.
If you watch the podcast, Zach is a pretty high level athelete and he says it in here it could take over a year to reach competition in ketosis without carb loading. But even he says sometimes he will take in some carbs for the very final push of his extreme runs. But he’s also exceptional.

(Edith) #31

Sorry, that comment was meant for @Silvian.
I understand your activity is for many hours.

#32

Please report back… I’m in the exact same situation as you. The last hare scramble kicked my butt.

#33

[quote=“VirginiaEdie, post:31, topic:55384”]
Sorry, that comment was meant for @Silvian
[/quote]:+1:t2:

#34

I definitely will. It’s so hard to find information on the stuff.
It will be nice when we finally get to a point where you can get info on things like this without so much preemptive bias.
I think this is a great place to do it.
But it’s just like with anything, just takes time collecting data based on actual trial and error.
Racing dirt bikes in key ptosis, I’ve had nowhere to turn for information.
Fortunately I’m in a position right now this season where I can afford to try things for this race and that race and see what works different or better. And it not cost me a championship.

I really encourage everyone to go listen to this podcast I was talking about. I’m listening to it again this morning on my drive to work. It really touches on what we’re discussing in here right now. He is a marathon runner, but it applies to so many different things.
Also very early in the podcast he’s talking about this stuff and they fear away from it, but they do come back in and start discussing carbohydrate intake and bonking etc.
Just stick with the podcast don’t give up on it, listen to it till the end.

#35

Also touching on the preemptive bias for a second
What I mean by that is. My wife started doing this diet with me about 4 weeks ago.
She might be the only person in the world actually gained weight LOL
She is a kidney and the pancreas transplant recipient. So I was a little concerned about some of the things that I was doing that might not be good for her to be doing. When she spoke with her doctor about it what do you think he said immediately.
“ oh no!! Stay away from Keto!!! It’s a modified Atkins diet and it’s awful for your body“

This is the kind of crap that you have to put up with. No one is willing to admit maybe they want taught the wrong way early on.
When you look at the food pyramid that I was growing up with had spaghetti at the bottom as a plentiful food. That’s ridiculous
I have a picture of the food pyramid in an elementary school that we go to and it has pancakes and waffles on the bottom of the food pyramid as plentiful. Are you serious??!!!
But I have nowhere to turn and ask questions as to why my wife was gaining weight on this diet because everyone just wanted to shit on the diet.
I think I did figure out part of her problem was her macros. She might eat a salad only for the day. So part of the problem was 240 cal for an entire day food.
Well that won’t work
And then once we started tracking her macros, I would see that her carbohydrate intake in relationship to protein and fat was very high.
Her carbohydrate intake was very low for the day, but because she had not had much food altogether it was very high compared to the protein and fat.
So we dialed that in and she did turn loose of a few pounds but I’m not sure where she’s at now.
I just don’t know why she won’t turn loose of the water weight. I know that’s what it is because she’s feeling puffy wear her clothes fit
Before the diet she would average 126 pounds. That was five or six mountain dews per day and whatever she wanted to eat.
Now she’s averaging 131 pounds and has not had a Mountain Dew in six weeks LOL

(Wendy) #36

I’m interested to know how she does on this diet. My son is a heart recipient and though we had done low carb before transplant ,not keto, to help him lose pre transplant, he hasn’t tried this diet since. I know the meds really don’t help with weight loss and he’s still on a bit of prednisone even 5 years later. I also worry a bit about rejection, he’s had one serious bout, just because it is such a healthy way of eating and may improve the bodies immune system. Is this anything you have considered or discussed?

Sorry this is a bit off subject.

#37

Wendy she’s 5 years out too.
I have not even thought about rejection sadly :worried:
Was his rejection bout caused by Ketoincreasing immune system response?
I don’t think she’s on a huge dose of prednisone.
We’ve really been fortunate as she has had absolutely no setbacks since day 1.
Her labs are insane.
She’s been diabetic her whole life and at 36yrs old her kidneys were failing and they did both kidney and pancreas and that all stopped.
But it scares me to death to cause any issues with it.
The whole reason I talked her in to Keto was I saw the Mt Dew increase amongst sweets.
I let it go a while, in fact 4 years because I realize she has never been able to just eat those things.
But finally I had enough and talked with her and explained things. I’m an ex-mechanic. So I was explaining to her, you can only race an engine so many times before it’s worn out. If you keep going, this pancreas might give out and we’re in trouble.
I felt she needed to get insulin spikes and resistance under control and not tax things so much.
She agreed and started.
But had not though about the rejection side.
Because Keto does improve immune system response.

(Wendy) #38

No Andrew was not and is not on keto so it had nothing to do with his rejection. It is just one of the reasons I haven’t tried too hard to get him to do it. It is such a balancing act. I want him leaner and I want to lower his chances of diabetes which is very often what happens as is kidney failure due to the strong meds they are on.
Definitely was smart to encourage her not to drink all that sugar.
I have noticed he is doing some diet changes like less bread and some IF. I really wish he would get off the statins though. That one worries me but he was told it might help with rejection. I’d like to see those studies.

(Nathan Toben) #39

endurance efforts up to a point. once we consider ultra distances, carbs need to be added

#40

OK so I’m reporting back after the weekend
I don’t have a 100% definitive answer.
Here’s what I have. I crashed in the first three minutes of the race and broke three ribs.
Got up and finished that Moto.
Then I went out and I raced Moto 2
Finish second
The night before I did carb load
I do think that it helped energy
It’s hard to really tell because when you fall like that it kind of zaps you anyway
But I felt like I had another two laps in me
The problem was, it wasn’t a really long race.
But I’m starting to figure out that part of the problem wasn’t necessarily carbohydrates. Some of it was not enough calories. Just need more fuel to put in the tank to reach my destination.
My plan was this weekend in Florida to really put it to the test for sure. Then I got the phone call from the doctor stating that my ribs were broken. So I’m not 100% that I will get to test this weekend. Going to play that by ear