Endurance loss and unexpected hunger


(Chris W) #5

Well lets do the full spectrum what is your BF.

For you active lifestyle your protein seems a touch low.

I think counting calories outside of the total for the day is counter productive.

You should not be hungry on this WOE with two exceptions. Right before you eat or on a extended fast at certain point. (and that is not recommended right now. )


(Jade) #6

I haven’t had my bf measured since before my last fight in January. Then, it was 17%. My fancy scale says it’s 22%, but it has always measured a tad high. I would give it an educated guess of about 20% bf. My arms are defined and somewhat vascular, some upper ab definition, but definition of hip area and legs is lacking.
Protein was my biggest struggle since starting keto. I had to adjust my meat portions to much lower than what I was used to. My typical cut diet previously was low carb (40-80g depending on activity), high protein, and moderate fat. I felt decent when cutting that way, but was still very hungry. However, I didn’t crave protein during those cuts like I do now. I want protein things! Eggs, chicken thighs, burgers,etc… all the time. When eating clean, I’m used to having eggs for breakfast, several hard eggs throughout the day and 6 or so ounces of protein for lunch and dinner. Since starting keto, I’ve eliminated all the hard eggs for snacks and cut to 4oz meat servings for meals to stay in my protein goal.


(Chris W) #7

alright I forgot to ask age, i used 31

my calculator came up with 167g fat 137g protein

For you I used 1.3g to lean which is high, and 20%BF

This would be a maintain diet macro, I assume you would like the benefits of fat adaption for fighting. I think that level would get you to it quickest IMHO. Once you hit that you can cut fat down some and you should be able to drop a little. I will say you are fairly low already so it will not go quickly.


(Jade) #8

Good guess! I’m 31 in July.
Yes, I’m hoping to use keto for fight and bjj competition performance. I waited until i didn’t have anything scheduled because I knew there was an adjustment period. But, I don’t want to take a fight or start a camp without being fat adapted, so I’m a bit anxious and want to make sure I’m not doing anything you slow my progress. Also, losing some bf will be helpful for my cuts, as I fight at 115 (mma) and under 129 (with a gi on for bjj). I think being able to easily maintain a more lean composition will make my cuts much less stressful.
I appreciate you looking into it. I’ll up the fat and protein and see what happens. As long as I’m not gaining, I’m good. Lol.


(Chris W) #9

Well its a starting point, you will have to adjust, if GNG kicks in too much you will not stay in keto. So you will have to do some experiments on the protein level depending upon the types of protein you intake. Make sure your keytones don’t fall too much if you increase to that level. Since you are active I would expect you are already beginning fat adaption. Keeping the ketones high until that happens is the key so no cheating or you get high insulin spikes.
Once you are fat adapted you may want to consider fasting some for the autophagy after a fight and before. It did miracles on certain issues I have been having even since keto, mainly joints and some old scars.

Eat eggs, eat bacon, eat all the bacon they are some of the most perfect foods.
Watch your salt levels, you will needing more than in the past, do the math for potassium intake on your foods as well as magnesium.


(Candy Lind) #10

YES. You should be eating to your TDEE until you are fat-adapted. Add more fat in your meals. Everywhere. You should not get hungry between meals.

The general consensus is that you should back off your exercise while you get fat-adapted, then gradually ramp back in to it. Your body is going through an upheaval- give it a break.

Make sure you keep up your electrolytes, too - especially if you keep up with part of your exercise regimen. Shortage of sodium will drag you down pretty quickly.

KCKO!


(Sybella) #11

I’ve found jogging/running to be difficult. The legs have felt tired and heavy. I’ve been doing Keto and IF science Nov 17 and very consistently since Jan 18. I’m sure I’m fat adapted but I’m not feeling like I have a spring in my step so to speak.


#12

I am on keto for almost two months now. I lift weights and run. In my opinion, full adaptation is when you don’t feel “heavy” in the legs during running. So far, I have experienced many benefits of the ketosis but still don’t feel like myself during the workouts. But I see progres.


(Bunny) #13

You are really active so you are going to be hungrier and your body is telling you (physiological) that you need more food (don’t ignore it, it’s not psychological) which is ok even for keto, because you have more physical exertion happening!

Eat when you are hungry!


#14

I remember hearing from the podcast that sport performance for athletes who start keto can take 6 months to reach previous performance. I think the cycling episode with Ian Robathan talks more about that. They mention that athletes start doing keto in their off-season because they need to adjust. If you’ve only been doing it for 3 weeks, I don’t think you’re at the stage yet where your body is optimally using ketones for fuel. I also agree with the others that you shouldn’t be calorie restricting. I am 5’0" and 115 lbs and I eat about 2000-2500 calories per day and I have been maintaining. I only exercise about 1-2x per week so I would imagine that you need more than you think.


(Chris W) #15

Do you use LISS or do you sprint. There will be a big difference between the two. You may need to train your muscles differently if you sprint. Sprinting relies on on glycogen which you now have very little most of the time. If you do LISS then you should have almost unlimited energy if you have the fat reserves and are fat adapted enough.
I will freely admit I don’t run, but I bike, and I can no longer really go nuts on sprinting but I can go faster and a little harder in the long run, and I have yet to cap out(but I have only had a couple rides) I did a hike about 6000 feet higher than I am used to, with an elevation change and crappy terrain 2 days ago(4 hours 9 miles). I never slowed down save to breath, and my daughter 20 years younger than me could not keep up. A year ago I would have been lucky to make 1/4 of the way without burning out.


(Jade) #16

I adjusted my calories to maintenance. I feel better even after only 2 days. My ketone levels in the morning before breakfast are consistently 1.5-2. I always check again post workout before lunch and they were between 2-3. Today, after 60 minutes of lifting and a 10 minute moderate intensity run, they were 3.7. Is this a result of upping my calories? Does it matter?
On another note, today was the first day since starting keto that I have actually had the urge to run. I felt good. I only went 10 minutes, but I didn’t feel as heavy as previously and I could have gone longer. Alas, I had to retrieve my child from baby jail (Genesis has a 2 hour max for kids club). I was also able to go from breakfast at 0700 until lunch at 1430 with very little discomfort. I mean, I was hungry, but I wasn’t “I feel like killing people” hungry like I used to get. Today has been a good day. Although, I think im going to not get on the scale as often… lol. Since upping my calories, I’ve gained a pound. I’m excited to find my groove so I can attempt IF and possibly full day fasts. Thanks again for all the feedback. Its been so helpful!


(Jade) #17

Cardio is a mixed bag for me. A lot of it comes from rolling in jiu jitsu or sparring. However, I occasionally add intentional cardio to my gym workouts. I don’t have a regime. Generally, it’s whatever I feel like doing. Sometimes I’ll row for 10-15 minutes. Sometimes I’ll jump on the stair mill for 20, and occasionally I’ll do long incline walks or 10 minute hiit runs. It just depends on what I feel like. I would say, most of it would be considered LISS, because thats what I would compare jiu jitsu rounds to…


(Jade) #18

Thank you! I try to listen to my body, but in the past I have struggled with binge eating and I still don’t always trust myself to know whether I’m actually hungry or just want to eat more.


(Jade) #19

What is the intensity or your runs? Easy, moderate or difficult?


(LeeAnn Brooks) #20

I too just completed 3 weeks on Keto. I am a runner and I know exactly what you mean about your legs feeling heavy. They start to go to jelly for me now after about a mile.

I have been told this is normal. It’s so hard to back off, but I’m determined to give Keto my all, so I’m going to have to.

I did read something very promising by a Keto runner. She said eventually the endurance will come back and she now runs 2 hours at a time before eating with no problems. As I’m trying to go for distance, that sounds great to me. She said it would be about 6 weeks before energy levels started to come back. But my energy levels sound like they may be even lower than yours. I’ve actually had days where it’s difficult to get out of bed and do anything.

I made the huge mistake of signing up for a RunBet challenge the same time I started Keto. Every run feels like it’s gotten worse than the one before. But I only have one more run to complete. Oh, and my husband was so sweet as to sign me up for a 5k for mother’s day. Something I really wanted before starting Keto. I don’t have the heart to let him down, so I’m I’m going to give it my all.


(Jade) #21

Are you doing keto for weight loss or for endurance benefits? Or both? My energy is actually really good most days. I used to have to take a nap to get through, but now when I nap, I do it just because.


(LeeAnn Brooks) #22

Both. I have been a yo-yo dieter my whole life. I was looking for something I could maintain. And since doing the LF thing hasn’t stuck, I decided to give Keto a try.
But I also was really attracted to the idea of extra energy. The furthest I’ve run is a half marathon. I was really thinking of training for a full, so the idea of having more endurance is certainly a draw for me.


#23

My runs are ridiculously easy if I compare them to what they used to be. I started keto because of some other Health issues which have been solved almost magically when I transferred to keto. But I was also athlete (and like to think that I still am), but - keto has steal a big part of my strength and endurance. At least in this adaptation phase. I am waiting for this adapting thing to happen - because then everything suppose to be back on the old basis. At least I am hoping so. To be honest, I’ ve had some serious problems for past two days - extreme fatigue and sickness - and I have almost quit because this was unbearable. I decided to see how today will go. I want to go to the gym today (last two times I was extremely sick after going to the gym), I decided to do some modified workouts (will experiment to see what will be). I really cannot and don’t want to quit that part of my life (gym, running, sports) because of keto. It just doesn’t make any sense to me. Also, I am not in this for losing weight but to help myself with Health issues.


#24

Three years ago I had one failed attempt of Keto. Now I Know where I was wrong. Too much protein and dairy which kept me the whole time in some low carb bad state. I remember that I was going on a 10K race which I barely completed. I was thinking that I am gonna die at the end and that was the last minute of keto for me back then. Surprisingly, I went for another race (5k) just two weeks after that with ridiculously small amount of carbs in my body and it felt like I was flying. I was strong, fast and feeling great, light. I remember that time when I thought I was on Keto (and now I Know that I wasnt, and that time I didn’t have a blood meter to check) - my legs were constantly heavy and I felt overall heavy and fat. Now I Know that I am in ketosis but I am not fully adapted. I feel light and good, my legs are fine - but I still feel muscle weak. If I go to the gym - I have no problem at the gym and my workouts are going better every time - BUT I feel like total crap for few days after and that is killing me. As I wrote in the comments - I was in the gym at sunday, had some busy and energetic monday and tuesday (a lot of walking) but wednesday and thursday got me so sick that I almost ended on emergency in the hospital. And that is not ok either.