Another thing I’m wondering about today
So we all understand the need to increase electrolytes with LC as we flush them.
I would like to understand now about the mechanisms involved in why this happens. Why does LC flush out electrolytes, and likewise why does HC store electrolytes - it strikes me as not evolutionarily to our advantage.
Anyone looked into this before and able to share any resources?
Good question.
For lack of a better response, I’ve simply heard that on LC our kidneys just work better.
I take my “lazy keto” seriously, so when I heard this I just thought, “sounds logical”, and didn’t bother to investigate anymore. But it would be good to know why.
I’m glad there are others who aren’t as lazy as I am, and want to dig deeper. 
It is quite the opposite electrolyte imbalance is caused by high glucose, when you lower the carbohydrates it just exploits that FACT! (TEMPORARILY for example i.e. keto flu)
I don’t exactly understand what you said here, but it does seem strange that I have to worry about salt, potassium and magnesium or I get tremors and Charlie horses. Maybe it’s because I don’t eat offal.
This is ONLY temporary; the longer you remain in ketosis the less you need of these minerals and elements as far as replenishment until your metabolism can straighten itself out and the time it takes may differ from person to person!
I have noticed that actually. It was pretty bad for awhile and then I stopped supplementing and haven’t had any problems
It’s all fascinating - I cannot even remotely keep all the interrelated processes straight, but it seems like there are frequent new additions to the “high-carb and poor blood sugar control can do this (bad thing) to you…”
Some of the sentiment to the contrary comes from misunderstandings, like “Keto means you eat more protein than is good for you,” etc. Hey - unless one’s kidneys are already in really bad shape, even a “really huge protein” day ain’t gonna be no big thing.
Part of it is just losing water - usually, each carbohydrate molecule has 3 water molecules hooked on, and with very few carbs we’re not having the attendant water any longer. As we quit digesting much in the way of carbs, we go to a ‘less water-retained’ state, that initial fast weight loss most of us experience when going to ketogenic eating.
With less water in our bodies, we excrete some salt and other electrolytes, to maintain the concentration of them in our blood and in and between our cells. This, by itself, is really not “flushing electrolytes” - if we didn’t, we’d have too much of them in us. High carb makes us have more total electrolytes in us than keto, really just since we have more water in us. It’s not bad to lose some when we don’t eat many carbs; it’s the body maintaining the levels it needs to.
I also think there’s a tendency for people to over-emphasize “getting enough salt,” etc. If there’s a demonstrable shortage or if one feels bad and then adds some salt and feels better - then no argument. Yet there are also people who fast for 30 or 40 days with just water, no added salt or other electrolytes.
The body is not going to be excreting many electrolytes at such a time, maintaining the balance it needs. Evolutionarily, we didn’t have salt shakers, so we got some salt from the blood and meat in some of our food - think of those big old animals we hunted, most of them eating grass and other veggies all the time - they were getting some sodium here and there.
While eating low-carb may mean needing more salt, etc., especially early on after giving up most carbs, I don’t think it necessarily needs to be “feared” on that score.
What I am posting below is an example that talks about the “diabetic” however I’m skeptical that it just applies to “diabetics” I am of the persuasion that this applies to anyone who partakes in high carbohydrate intake?
Here’s a closer look at the list of electrolytes:
- Sodium (Na+)
- Chloride (Cl-)
- Potassium (K+)
- Magnesium (Mg++)
- Calcium (Ca++)
- Phosphate (HPO4–)
- Bicarbonate (HCO3-)
How To Replace Electrolytes For Diabetics:
Electrolyte imbalance in diabetes is primarily a result of elevated blood glucose. With hyperglycemia, the body tries to rid itself of the excess blood glucose by increasing urinary output. Increased urination produces water and electrolyte loss, which then upsets the body’s balance of electrolytes. The balance is especially disturbed between sodium and potassium. …More
Over the course of our evolutionary history, the kidneys developed to process sodium at a certain rate. A high-carbohydrate diet does two things: first, the glucose in the carbohydrate causes the muscle tissue to retain water, thus increasing the body’s need to hang on to sodium; second, the high insulin resulting from the high glucose signals the kidneys to slow down excretion of sodium to keep electrolytes in balance. (Otherwise sodium would leave the bloodstream to join the water in the muscles.)
When we stop eating so much carbohydrate, the muscles use up their extra glucose and get rid of the bloat. Insulin goes down, so the kidneys return to their usual rate of excreting sodium and water.
Lastly, when sodium gets out of balance, our levels of potassium and magnesium get out of balance, too. So keeping sodium intake up actually helps keep all three of these minerals properly regulated. And calcium, too, apparently.
On top of all this, recent studies have shown that the U.S. dietary guideline for sodium intake is woefully inadequate. We are at our healthiest when we get between 4 and 6 grams a day of sodium, or 10-15 grams a day of table salt (NaCl).
According to the top people in the field, long story short, it is the carbs that tell the kidneys to use the sodium to hold on to the fluid in the body. When you reduce your carbs, the signal no longer happens so every bit of salt and other electrolytes you get, you pee out so you have to keep putting them in your body as you pee them out.
I wonder how temporary you suppose? I think the attack I had today was due to low sodium. It almost makes me want to have a panic attack and feel like my world is coming to an end. The only reason why that didn’t happen is because I had it happen to me before about a week after I started the keto diet. However, now I am in my 6th week of it and about 3 days ago or maybe two days ago I stopped salting my water. I woke up this morning, ate my breakfast as I always do and took my normal medications in my whole world started crashing around me. I salt it up some water quickly and drink it, but it doesn’t go away immediately. I don’t know if I would have gotten better anyway or if I would not have had I not taken this out. I don’t think I drank salt water the first time it happened cuz I was too busy freaking out. This time, I tried to stay calm and think about what I could do. It takes forever to go away though. I still feel crummy for the rest of the day though not as bad as I was feeling. Any input?
At the least I think this varies greatly from person to person, i.e. some people fast for 40 days or more with just water, not adding any electrolytes at all.
@NatalieMatured May I ask about your blood pressure and pulse rate? It sounds like you may be hypotensive (low pressure)?
I don’t have low blood pressure, but I don’t have high blood pressure either. I am on a beta blocker as well as a new drug called by deal because I have congestive heart failure brought on by a malfunctioning thyroid because of graves disease. Basically, my thyroid made my heart beat too fast for too long and I had a heart attack. The medication my heart doctor has me on has nothing to do with blood pressure and, because the other ones usually lower cholesterol and things like that, it can be dangerous for the cholesterol drugs when you don’t have high cholesterol but a person can have lower than normal blood pressure. My blood pressure actually went up and so did my heart rate. I was burning a thousand more calories a day. Once I increased my salt, everything started to chill out. I didn’t realize I had to eat so much of it though. I just put it in my water because it’s impossible to Salt my food that much and be able to tolerate the taste of it so the water is a lot easier to ingest.
I would say it boils down to what your eating when you go on a ketogenic diet!
I have never ever needed any extra salt at all on a Ketogenic diet, although I do love salt because I always crave it, I do not eat salt because people are telling me to eat salt, it is kind of like drinking water, as Dr. Berg describes in his videos your body knows when it’s thirsty but my body also knows when it needs salt!
I love to drink wheat grass juice and other leafy greens along with wheat grass powder and chia seeds every day so I know their is no way I could not be getting enough potassium, sodium and magnesium (incl. naturally aged cheese, oysters and kelp that has naturally balanced iodine in it).
I also drink Apple Cider Vinegar (acetoacetic acid) 2 Table spoons to a glass of water everyday once a day because it powers my batteries (mitochondria). I get unbelievable electrical energy (never tired or lethargic in the slightest), that’s some amazing stuff. ACV also helps your body hold onto potassium so the need for salt also diminishes!