Eating in moderation works

#1

Getting thoughts on a page for discussion. They flowed out like this…

Eating in moderation works when we understand hunger. We understand hunger when we recognise hunger in ourselves.

Eating in moderation works when we understand cravings. We understand cravings when we recognise the psychological triggers and that cravings are different to hunger.

Eating in moderation is comfortable when we are not hungry.

There is more complexity in here, like food addiction nuances. But the start is that there are dietary things to do before eating in moderation that allow us to recognise and understand hunger.

That’s where ketogenic eating comes in. Before eating in moderation. The keto way of eating is a sorter. It sorts out the preliminary work and understanding needed before applying mainstream common sense attributed dietary advice.

If we do the preparation, that is eat a low carbohydrate way, become fat for fuel adapted, recognise the absence of hunger (a revelation for many) to recognise hunger in ourselves, crush cravings, then eating in moderation becomes a consequence, not an effort.

I acknowledge that there are many of us dealing with decades of disordered eating damage and the simplicity expressed here is not an easy achievement. I know I stress eat. I recognise

#2

Hi FrankoBear, I agree with you. I feel very lucky though in that I have no trigger foods, or food addictions like that, and I believe now eating a varied diet is key. I fell, for a while, for the science that says we should not, and instead eliminate foods. I fell for the science that states, carbs are not essential. Well, if you are talking about berries, fruit and vegetables, I believe they are. For me.
I went through three cancer related surgeries, and I healed swiftly and superbly from them all, what did I eat, fruit, berries and vegetables, as well as meat and fish. Not a single processed food, certainly no mineral and vitamin leeching sugar, but plenty of nourishing whole foods. My scars also healed swiftly, and incredibly well.

If I am to listen to my body, and not to science, vegetables and berries do not only address my digestive system and makes me go comfortably and regularly without strain (and tricks like a squatty potty), but also when I eat those foods, my legs look better, my lipoedema and lymphedema looks better, there is visibly less swelling and inflammation. And that makes sense because the kind of vegatables I eat are the ones beneficial for lymph. Eating a few vegetables does not cause any cravings for me, or a few berries. They are part of a balanced WOE. I have cut down on my heavy whipping cream, as I’ve read dairy can clog lymph, but so can fatty red meat, according to the science. Do I stop eating red meat? No. Do I stop eating dairy? No. But I moderate, and continue to listen to my body, and my body is happiest I have discovered, when not listening to the science, on a balanced WOE.

I was slim when I started keto, but I wanted to address what were early signs of lipoedema, as well as my bilateral lymphedema. And a varied ketogenic WOE, allows me to do this. The benefits have been noticeable, but best when my ketogenic WOE includes vegetables and berries. A balanced dinner plate for me is a couple of Aberdeen Angus burgers or chicken legs or pork chops, a few steamed broccoli or cauliflower florets, or some cabbage, and a few green beans. My body does very well with these vegetables. And earlier in the day a small handful, say 5, of either raspberries or blueberries. And the result of that eating is better flowing lymph, looking visibly slimmer, having more energy, and not having constipation. Fruitwise, I would say the best fruit on keto by far is avocado, which my body tolerates well.

What needs to be remembered when listening to the science, which has become a kind of religion for people, is that one WOE does not fit all.

(KM) #3

Perhaps it would be helpful to suggest that eating in moderation is a potential benefit of keto, not a requirement.

#4

I believe a ketogenic WOE is beneficial, if the understanding is there that one WOE definitely does not fit all, and that, as we are all individuals, listening to our bodies is key. And not just following science. There is no just one way of eating ketogenically, and so there needs to be other components such as critical thinking, intuitive eating, and N=1. Science is neither law nor religion, and personal experience is a hugely important part of the equation. A lean person starting keto to address a particular health issue, is a vastly different starting point than an obese person who embarks on a ketogenic WOE to kick carb/sugar addiction to the curb, and lose weight. And those various starting points are important. For me personally, it’s neither about carb addiction nor weightloss, but to address inflammation, improve lymph flow, and improve gut health. One of the benefits I’ve experienced from keto is learning to listen better to my body.

(Eve) #5

@never2late. My motivation for the keto WOE is the same as yours. I am slim and am not addicted to carbs, but am looking for improved gut health. At the moment, like you, l eat a few bits of low carb veg per day, but way way less than l was and that keeps me well below the 20g total carbs. This feels right for me at the moment- l also have 4 or 5 blackberries on occasion as well.
My current concern is that due to biome problems l am going to be advised to eat prebiotic foods to support the good bacteria . I will see what the practitioner says! …

#6

Hi Eve, our situations sound similar. Carbwise, I don’t require a lot, just a few vegetables, not all days, (I do well on alternating broccoli, cauliflower and green beans), and on some days, likewise not all, about 5 berries, raspberries or blueberries. My choice of fruit on some days would be sliced cucumber, bell peppers and/or avocado. But like you, I eat these foods in small enough quantities that my total carb amount on any given day will be below 20 grams, usually a good bit below. And my body feels good on such a WOE. It is a far cry, a really far cry from how I ate before Keto, though I limited processed foods to the weekends, and gave up the sugar that leeches vitamins and minerals from your body back then. To say all carbs, such as vegetables, berries and fruit, is sugar is not, in my opinion, the right way to look at it. As there are vitamins and minerals, despite the all plants are bio unavailable claim.

As to fermented vegetables, if you have access to sugar free and minimally processed versions, or if you could make them yourself, I can see them being beneficial certainly to some. My first step in addressing my gut health will be to swap my heavy whipping cream for raw milk. I already made the swap of cows cheese for goats cheese, and it’ll be interesting to see if any of that will make a difference to my roseaca, which is a sign I suppose that I still have some remaining inflammation, as it hasn’t cleared up.

(Chuck) #7

I am 75 and switch off the switch of eat less move more the first of September and I have been eating low carb since then jus about 5 and half months now. I have increased my daily calorie intake by over 500 calories per day, and it has been Winter so my activity level has been less. And I have lost over 36 pounds since the first of September. What I was eating on high carb diet was honestly a starvation diet what I am eating now is a luxury diet in comparison. And by eating no grains and very little starches or sugar I am doing great. Maybe i am eating moderately for some of your thinking but compared to what I was eating I am eating like a king now compared to a slave.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #8

My experience on keto has been similar. It just goes to show that things are easier when we work with our body, instead of against it. I love being able to lose fat without going hungry.

#9

For me the situation is vastly different. I went into this WOE slim, but with the hope of addressing my lipoedema features. And I don’t believe keto is ever going to cure my lipoedema, but there is much science to suggest (and my own experience to go by) that this WOE improves the lymphatic system. So in that sense a ketogenic WOE can, if not cure the lipoedema, stop it in its progression. I listened to an interview with Siobhan Huggins and she was saying basically the same. I will be giving keto a year to see if there are any changes to the lipoedema, and then reassess how I feel overall. Though I will always keep to nourishing whole foods, no processed foods or sugar. I believe in the saying everything in moderation when it comes to said whole foods, not ever when it comes to sugary junk and processed garbage.

(Joey) #10

@FrankoBear Right on. Great post.

(Bob M) #11

I was looking to see if Siobhan Huggins’s presentation from KetoFest 2022 was online. I don’t see it. I do see this, though:

#12

Hi Bob, as far as I remember from Siobhan Huggins’ story, she was obese and lost her non lipoedema related fat, but I think from her own words the lipoedema remained unchanged. Though she does believe the ketogenic WOE has, if not reversed her lipoedema, halted it or stopped it in its progress, and she does also say why she thinks that is, that the ketogenic WOE has a really beneficial effect on lymph. And for someone who has lipoedema, proper function of lymph is vital. The other element Siobhan Huggins addresses as a benefit is the lack of water retention a ketogenic WOE ensures, as water retention will aggravate lipoedema. If I find this WOE still greatly benefits me a year on, I will of course continue with it, as I am enjoying the food. I did find however, that bringing back vegetables and berries (in small quantities) improved my lymph flow, so for me, personally, in order to address lymph and lipoedema, keto is preferable to my body as opposed to carnivore. But I am still glad I tried carnivore, I enjoyed the foods, but the biggest sign my body gave me that it was not the right WOE for me, as opposed to keto, was that I noticed more inflammation along with a sense that lymph flow was directly impacted by my choice of foods, some improving flow and some clogging it.

(Bob M) #13

I believe she also eats a very high fat diet, similar to what she describes here:

I think she eats fat first, then protein.

Though I did not speak with her at KetoFest 2022, it would be interesting to see what she’s eating now. She may also still be on Twitter (I quit after Elon Musk took over), and she seems to be helpful.

#14

Siobhan Huggins is certainly very bright, that’s the impression I get from listening to her in interviews. I was eating much in the same way on carnivore, prioritising fat over protein, but what I discovered was it wasn’t beneficial for the lymph, that in fact, certain vegetables, fruit (avocado) and berries are beneficial to the lymph. Now I understand in Siobhan Huggins’ case vegetables didn’t agree with her, and in that sense she is doing the best WOE I believe for the lipoedema. But I personally find keto rather than carnivore beneficial, as I see an improvement in lymph when I include nuts, berries and vegetables, and still, there is the lack of inflammation and water retention.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #15

Siobhan also still works for Dave Feldman, I believe, so should be reachable at www.cholesterolcode.com, as well

#16

I am familiar with Dave Feldman’s and Siobhan Huggins’ blog: the cholesterol code, and have spent some time there learning what I could. While I was attempting carnivore I was reading Amber O Hearn’s blog as well. I’ve watched and listened to lowcarb and ketogenic promoting doctors such as Dr. Ken Berry, Dr. Paul Mason, Dr. Paul Saladino. I’ve been reading Dr Malcolm Kendrick’s blog, and perused Zoe Harcombe’s site. And the more I learn the more convinced I become of the importance of listening to our bodies, as well as the importance of not blindly following science. And if the ketogenic WOE has given me anything (besides reduced inflammation) it is a better ability to listen to my body, for which I am grateful.

(Eve) #17

I have had results from an extensive stool analysis where various microorganisms were cultured etc to see how my biome is. The main point is that as well as some bacteria present that shouldn’t be there, l am lacking in a number of our good commensals. I will therefore need to embark on a programme of reseeding with appropriate probiotics and then feeding them with appropriate prebiotics. I am obviously glad to have this information revealed, but am a bit concerned that the prebiotics will be too carby. The practitioner knows l am on the keto diet, and the benefits it has given me so far., so hopefully she will find a way to correct the dysbiosis without kicking me out of ketosis. I am very committed to this WOE, and really really don’t want to have to abandon it at this stage. Fingers crossed…

#18

Hi Eve. I believe sauerkraut is a good probiotic food, if you can find it without added sugar and other unnecessary ingredients. I might try it myself. As well as raw milk, too rebuild my biome. I don’t believe the fear of carbs that people seem to have should surpass the benefits that plants can bring, to those who tolerate them. As to prebiotic foods, asparagus are a good source, as also very low in carbs, then there’s onions, garlic and leeks.
There are people who don’t tolerate vegetables or plants, who perhaps don’t have the enzymes to digest them. And then, there is an idea circulating that if you, through an elimination WOE like carnivore, kill off the bacteria that feeds off those plants, there follows an impaired ability to digest them, and so both discomfort and distress can be experienced in attempting to re-introduce these foods. Though that might not be the case for everyone.

Personally, I don’t see plants as unnecessary or not essential, but as medicinal and nourishing foods in their own right. I have no other proof for this statement than what my own body has repeatedly shown me. It took going down the path of carnivore to make me properly realise this. We’re all different with different starting points and varying goals, and we all have to do US.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #19

It’s also worthwhile listening to presentations by researchers in the field: Dr. Stephen D. Phinney, Prof. Jeff S. Volek, Dr. Richard Feinman, Dr. David Ludwig, Prof. Benjamin Bikman, Dr. Thomas Seyfried, Dr. Chris Palmer, and the like.

#20

Hi Paul, thanks for those recommendations, I will look into them, as I am always eager to learn more. Am currently reading a study though about how drinking raw milk is beneficial to gut health as well as brain health, as the two are connected. There is an awful lot of scare propoganda regarding consumption of raw milk, but I’ve come to take all the scare propoganda with a very large pinch of salt.