Eating in moderation works

(Chuck) #21

I grew up drinking raw milk, eating butter made from raw milk. I truly believe in it. I now get my milk, eggs, butter, beef, pork and chicken from local farmers. And when possible I get veggies and some fresh fruit from the farmers. I believe it is much healthier and better for me and my wife. I am 75 years old never been hospitalized, never had a broken bone, I do keep my shots and vaccinations up to date. My only concerns are my eyes and hearing.


Hi Chuck, I can well believe how healthy eating in this manner made you. I am slowly attempting to implement such foods into my WOE, but there is a budget, so I’ll have to focus on unpasteurised dairy for now. To buy all our meats from local farmers, butchers, and all our vegetables and fruits from farmer’s markeds would break that budget, so it’ll have to be the supermarked for now. You are very fortunate Chuck, to have grown up on a farm and eaten this way your whole life, I can well believe how that lifestyle made you both stronger and healthier.

(Eve) #23

You are right about the financial aspects - i am going to start eating beef but really hate the cruelty of intensively reared cattle but the price of free range organic meat is prohibitive. I am sure there is a compromise though where meat exists which is less cruel but perhaps not the full-on organic free range.
Like you never2late, l am always interested in learning more , particularly as it pertains to what is going on in my body, correct paths to take etc. The whole keto/carnivore thing has been a fascinating eye-opener, even more so when the individual aspects are also looked at. E.g. my partner can eat carbs until the cows come home, whereas l now know l just can’t (am ok to eat the cow though, lol). Plus all your insights on the best WOE for you… etc. Thanks for all your info and insights

(KM) #24

I created a fantasy grocery list based on the absolutely most health appropriate foods I could come up with, which is to say the whole nine yards of pasture raised and finished, organic, local, humane, wildcatch etc etc etc. If I included some favorite foods like beef, it turned out to be approximately $.02 cents per calorie. And additionally, approximately 20 hours of hunting and gathering per week. :rage:

(Chuck) #25

I guess I would ask what is good health worth to you? But to be honest you don’t have to go through all that much trouble just shop smart. I don’t believe in shopping big chain grocery stores or even big chain clothing stores, I find much better value from the smaller mom and pop stores. Sure you lose the huge amount of options but you gain much better value for your dollar because that mom and pop store is working much harder to keep their customers happy.

(KM) #26

IMO If you really dig in and do your research, you cannot buy the food I’m talking about at a mom and pop store either. At least where I live, mom and pop are selling the same stuff as everyone else, it’s just more expensive due to small scale. And while I’d like to say I prioritize my health, not to the extent of spending $40 a day on groceries.

(Chuck) #27

Well that isn’t the case here where I live. We have mom and pop’s that provide services to both their customers and the farms they purchased their produce from. I don’t have to go to each and every farmer to get my needs I go to the local grocery stores where the farmers deliver their produce to. There are even licensed locations that I can purchase wild meat that is checked and certified by the state. I love elk, and deer meat to mention just a couple. At my age I don’t feel comfortable hunting by myself anymore. I guess it all depends on location. Sure it is a little more expensive. But then it would be expensive for me to travel to the larger communities to shop the big box stores.

(KM) #28

I envy that! What state / country do you live in? When I say two cents a calorie, that’s for me alone. If our household were to eat this way every day, it would be approximately $3,000 a month for two people. That’s not a little more expensive, it is, as said above, bank breaking.

(Eve) #29

Unfortunately where l live, in England, there just aren’t the types of places that are available to you. And the smaller businesses are ALWAYS more expensive than the big ones. There is a lovely farm shop that sells their own meat close by, but their prices are quite literally 3 to 4 times more than in a supermarket. I very occasionally buy stuff from them, but it has to be a treat. Before keto l ate alot of good quality veg as it is more affordable, and alot less meat , but now l have had to change that WOE, hence the ethical and financial dilemmas!

(Chuck) #30

I live in the USA and in Central Arkansas, which prides itself for being the Natural State. Lots of forests, lakes, rivers and wildlife. Mostly small rural towns, a lot of them just with a stop sign or two, here if there is a red light it is a large community.

(KM) #31

It’s pretty much exactly the same for me. I’m in a medium sized city in the Midwest US. There isn’t a lot of local meat available, certainly not unless I want to buy half a cow at a time, basically no local fish, and what beef, pork, and chicken there is is crazy expensive, upward of $25 a pound.


for me it is brain vs. body. Simple as that.

I know I should eat xyz and I do ‘kinda want it’ til some ‘factor comes into play’ like thru social issues, old fav meals I do adore and want to eat again’ to just diving my azz into a gallon of ice cream I cherished before’ and then it becomes a friggin’ fight of brain vs. body. Key being I KNOW what to do, will I do it all the time? NOW I DO and for a longer stint cause each year I learned thru personal experience what works for me only and me alone and only one person can do those changes, me.

So in the end as much as ‘we change’ we got demons lurking like no tomorrow for darn near most of us literally on point and in our face. Yes we have total control and clarity a ton of times which only to me if one can combat and ignore and more thru the body telling us where we need to be and not the brain, then we can actually make it work long term for real beneficial health changes but darn if that one ‘darn thing’ don’t upset the apple cart ya know.

Sometimes it ain’t just warped issues with foods thru addiction to sugar and disorders we deal…a ton of time for me personally it is ‘life is so damn unfair’ I got all this crap food that I love to inhale, yet it ain’t ‘real food’ but hell others are eating it and doing OK but ‘not me’ and I get irked. I tell ya some of us are not ‘fixed fine’ in any way thru our lifestyles and environment and stress levels of what life is today at all and what we get slammed with in our life trials.

all we can do is hope. learn. find ‘us’ only in our eating and it boils down to ‘how bad ya want your health change’ and what are you willing to do for it ‘at all times’…that is what it took for me. 100% change. No exceptions. Hold strong IF I want my change to happen and hold.

OK my take on it all in a way :slight_smile: :slight_smile: my personal feelings on how it goes down for me daily.


I live in England too, and even the grainfed meat is expensive, so I could only dream at this point of buying grassfed. My first step towards better health will be to buy raw milk from a local farm, and I’m sure it will cost a fair bit more than double cream, but since I’m not a major cheese lover I’m willing to give up the cheese too to afford the raw milk, and that’s a small, but still very positive change I can make.

Dr. Ken Berry talks, in one of his videoes, about how things like antibiotic and hormone use in the animal meat industry is highly regulated, that use of antibiotics in chickens for example to grow them bigger is no longer legal. Both Dr. Ken Berry and Dr. Paul Mason says, although the nutrient profile of grassfed meat is higher, and the omega 6/omega 3 ratio better, the difference just isn’t enough to justify breaking the bank. And the price difference here in England anyway, really is major. Now when I eat my Aberdeen Angus beef burgers I feel great, my body tells me they’re plenty nutritious. Same when I eat my pork shoulder joint, or my pork chops. It all tastes great, but also my body feels good in the aftermath. Now when I drink my heavy whipping cream, my body tells me in multiple ways it doesn’t like it, through bloating, through feeling sluggish, and through aching joints. So it’s either replacing it with raw milk, or quitting dairy, and I choose the former. This because I’ve read up about the massive difference between pasteurised milk, and raw milk. The difference is night and day. And in several studies raw milk has been shown to be tolerated well by the people who have lactose intolerance. This is because the raw milk contains among other things the enzyme lactase (this and other enzymes are deactivated when the milk is pasteurised, as well as the good bacteria) that enable them to digest lactose. It also contains enzymes to digest fat better. And the good bacteria that raw milk will fill your gut with has also been linked to better brain health. As gut and brain are connected. There is a lot of scare propoganda regarding raw milk, but this pertains to milk intended for pasteurisation, where the hygiene could be poor, there could be some use of antibiotics and hormones, and not the best conditions for the animal. Raw milk from a small local farm with a free range herd, is not only safe, but incredibly nutritious. The raw milk I intend to buy is from such a farm, and the milk is tested vigorously, so I have no concerns about their raw milk at all.

(Chuck) #34

Do you know why antibiotics were given to grain fed animals? Because the grain makes the animals sick with diarrhea and cause the animals to have lots of inflammation. And grain does the same thing to us humans. I have known that my whole life from the time I was growing up on the farm in the 1950s. But we all fall for the propaganda of the media and food industry and that has been our downfall when it comes to our health. I have known that but we all become brainwashed if we don’t turn off the television and stop watching and listen to the propaganda machine.


Hi Chuck. I know things aren’t perfect in the meat industry, but I have to prioritise my health. You see many years ago I was guilted into trying to be a vegetarian, and also a vegan. I’ve been down those routes and both WOEs made me gravely ill. I was losing my hair, I was having fainting episodes, no energy, and I remember staring longingly into butchers’ windows, dreaming even about eating meat, lol. My body was very clearly craving meat. It’s the only time in my life my body has really craved anything. I was young and stupid, so, though I hated the WOE and feeling sicker everyday, I told myself I was doing the right thing. Well, I’ve been there, I’ve done that, and never, ever again. So when vegetarians and vegans try to guilt me, I just close my ears to them, life is too short. So, knowing things aren’t perfect in the meat industry, I still go by Dr. Ken Berry and Dr. Paul Mason’s advice, to just buy the best meat I can afford. Because it makes me feel great.

(KM) #36

This is a little random, but my big question is what’s in the feed that factory farmed animals are fed or “finished” with, and how much of that is passed on to me. I’ve been looking into “commercial” oils, i.e. seed oils, and the startling link between them and chronic western disease, which may be even clearer and more damning than the processed carbs link. How deranged are the cell walls of the animals being fed a commercial diet, and how does that affect me? I’m not sure how to answer that question, so it seems prudent to put as much space between me and artificial food as possible. I’m a fan of raw milk from pastured cows or even better, sheep and goats, and I’d be an even bigger fan of raw cream, and I have yet to find a source of that. :frowning:

(Chuck) #37

I eat my meat daily, I could never be a vegetarian even with my love of all things vegetables. I also love fruits and nuts. The key is getting the balance right. Also the key is location, to have the freedom to choose and eat higher quality foods. As someone with severe hearing loss, I can’t stand the noise of cities, I can only understand one on one conversations. I thrive in the peace and quiet of the countryside. I grew up in the countryside and spent my adult working years in the city and retired back to country life. If you grew up in the city and enjoyed it you would be bored to death in the countryside. And to be honest when I retired and move here it took me a while to get use to not having certain things readily available. But peace and quiet is worth it. As someone with hearing loss I love reading more than TV or movies. I do listen to audiobooks to help myself understand conversations and hold onto what word recognition I still have left.


One of the main issues that bring people to Keto is weight loss. Most, not all lose fat and muscle weight due to some form of caloric restriction. Understanding when we are hungry is very difficult for many who are fat-adapted. This is because the fat satiates us. I suspect the hunger hormone ghrelin is downregulated. Many who are obese are also leptin resistant.
I would agree moderation is the key. I suspect that as you lose weight over time your leptin levels also decrease and this signals to the body that you are starving. However, some research from Europe points to a rebound effect. Whereas the opposite happens after big weight loss and the weight gain is more than the weight loss. Almost as though the body sees the fat loss as an injury.
I eat primarily LCH now. I eat lots of blueberries. I regularly consume homemade sour-dough rye bread but I don’t overdo it. About 2-3 slices per week. I no longer look at all carbs as being bad. I think like everything else there is a duality with food. Food is more than just its macros. Eat the best quality.
Agree 100% awareness/recognize is the key.


I like a few lightly steamed vegetables with my meats. And I like a few berries, an avocado. But my WOE has to have meat, fish and seafood in it, and it doesn’t matter that it’s not the best quality, grassfed, pasture raised, free range, etc. What matters is how good my body feels eating those foods. And it’s taken me years not to feel guilty about that. I loathe citylife, and live in a small village with lush countryside, I’ve always been a country gal. But just because I am surrounded by local farmers does not mean I can afford to buy their meat, their eggs, raw cheeses, etc. We can only do what we can do, and when people are discouraged from trying keto or carnivore because they can’t afford grassfed meats, pastured chickens, etc, it’s just plain wrong to make them feel that way. To jeopardise health, in order to feel one is doing the right thing. In the end, a WOE that makes people sick, even if making that choice feels more ethically right, well those people still have a responsibility to their loved ones, their children, if they have any, their spouses. You have to prioritise your own health, otherwise you’re in no state to help others, this is what annoys me when vegetarians and vegans start talking about making ethical choices.

(Chuck) #40

The key to weight loss and not regaining is to find a food lifestyle that you can enjoy the rest of your life and to lose the weight very slowly, allowing your body to get used to the lower weight as you lose it. We all hate plateaus or stalls in our weight loss journey but I believe that just maybe the key to keeping to weight off and also not have huge amounts of loss skin. I find it so interesting to see people that have lost weight extremely quickly have lots of loss skin. And the ones that have lost the same amount of weight over longer periods of time that haven’t got any loss skin. Over my many years of weight loss and gain and losing weight again I don’t have any issues with loss skin. But my wife and stepson have lost weight extremely quickly and have so much loss skin that it has required surgery to remove it. And I also see the illnesses and discomfort both of them have because now they have so much pain an issues with digestion. I was offered the same process at my heaviest and rejected it. But my first time around I lost close to 100 pounds in a year, not near enough time for the body to adjust to the changes. And I regained weight but stopped myself from gaining so much and I would lose weight, then regain weight but stopped before regaining as much. This time is different. I am eating a maintenance level number of calories and managing to lose a few tens of a pound every so often after my 2 month stall at 208 which was my weight for over a decade while in the Navy and for some time afterwards. I am happy if I see a pound a month of weight loss.