Eating Fat to Satiety

#124

Cholecystokinin (CCK) is part of the neuroregulation of appetite and is released in response to fatty acids and some amino acids.

CCK is synthesized and released by enteroendocrine cells in the mucosal lining of the small intestine (mostly in the duodenum and jejunum), called I cells, neurons of the enteric nervous system, and neurons in the brain. It is released rapidly into the circulation in response to a meal. The greatest stimulator of CCK release is the presence of fatty acids and/or certain amino acids in the chyme entering the duodenum.

(Martin Arnold) #125

Do you have an argument that isn’t ad hominem?

(eat more) #127

(Richard Morris) #128

I gave you precisely the same appeal to authority that you used … :phinney:'s own words.

You appear to have been badly misled by whomever tried to convince you that Dr Phinney supported their specific narrow world view. I’m doing you a favor. By taking the time to show you what :phinney: really said. What you do with that is up to you.

(Mike W.) #129

I feel like this guy just wants to “win”. Nobody is this combative…while being wrong.

#130

See that just proves that you do not read posts properly @Martin_Arnold . Me, I’ll be rude to you. Richard? Nope, he simply doesn’t do that. Way too much of a gentleman and a scholar. Puts you to shame.

(Richard Morris) #131

Martin appears to share a commonly held misunderstanding … that Energy Balance drives weight loss/gain rather than the opposite.

I see this as a teachable moment.

Unfortunately there are several keto groups on the internet, that have trouble getting away from this furphy of Calories In vs Calories out. It’s oxymoronic for a ketogenic diet to actually be lipophobic … Keto and Scared of Fat - that’s crazy like a Vegan butcher. But I know several groups that regularly shame people who eat fat.

This idea that people who are fat are that way because they are gluttons is an argument that ought to be challenged - because it is the foundation of failing diets from Weight Watchers to protein spared modified fasts. It is preferred by every diet charlatan that has ever taken a buck to help someone lose weight, because transitory successes are held to the credit of the diet, and the inevitable long term failures are accepted by the poor victim as due to their “lack of discipline”.

I see a lot of people from these groups who have left them demoralized and convinced their inability to shift their weight was down to their own lack of discipline, and too frightened to mention their lack of success at losing weight lest they be mocked with memes. In case any are lurking here watching this thread … it’s worth making this effort.

We never as a rule tell people how many grams of fat they should have in a day. Keto as we formulate it is not an IIFYM diet where you have a set amount of carbs protein and fat and as long as you hit that you are on track. Satiety is key. It allows us to titrate up and down our caloric intake to match the changing contribution of body fat with way more accuracy than any of the online keto diet calculators. Satiety takes into account not only how much body fat your have, but how much energy that body fat is releasing under the influence of insulin, and thousands of other inputs.

Note how Dr :phinney: answers the question “How many grams of fat per day do you eat”

I was there at that presentation in Sydney, and it is worth listening to his story about the dish of melted butter that he ordered. I was at that dinner. I wish I had a photo of that moment, but I’ll admit I was too star struck to have the nerve to take a photo of Dr Phinney “chugging butter”.

So all the Keto groups who profess to follow Dr Phinney, yet traffic in nasty memes about Butter eating … should consider for a moment that they are mocking Dr Phinney, and feel some shame.

(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #132

This.

(eat more) #133

some ppl don’t want to be “taught” they just want what they believe and “know” to be validated without considering anything outside of that…
BUT…i have taken it as a learning experience for myself :blush:…i think that makes sense?

#134

(Jacquie) #135

I knew you would. :slight_smile:

Love this! :grinning:

(Martin Arnold) #136

But this isn’t addressing the question.

I eat a meal to satiety. Who doesn’t?

Saying to eat one particular component of that meal makes no sense to meal. it isn’t just protein or even carbs that sate me, it’s the combination of everything within it. So if the message is ‘eat fat to satiety’ but not count grams, how does taht actually work?

And protein is the most sating element. Not fat.

(Bacon for the Win) #137

so go eat your protein.

(eat more) #138

a lot of ppl…ugh…
IF you are still hungry after your meal…eat FAT because it is the least insulinogenic

i just ate…am i still hungry? a little…will i have some more fat? probably

do you not SEE that is exactly what you keep trying to convince everyone?

FFS

(Siobhan) #139

Never ever argue to convince another person who doesn’t want to be convinced. Argue to convince people on the sidelines.
In general I always try to advise being respectful, always cite your sources, if you need to resort to ad hominem or restating things you’ve already said - just walk away.
A mistake a lot of people make (not you or anyone else arguing high fat in this thread) is just trying to win, and make the other person admit defeat. Instead, like what @Richard is doing he is arguing not for the person trying to prove him wrong, but for the people who may be lurking in the thread so that they can learn from this little spat.
Imagine someone new coming across this thread. What will they see? One side is citing sources, being respectful, and always answering questions when asked. The other is being rude, acting high and mighty, and dodging questions/twisting other people’s words.

Who is this new person more likely to go to for more information?

Edited for clarification

(eat more) #140

are you meaning to lecture me? :flushed:

i have not once been disrespectful

(Siobhan) #141

No, no, no, no!!!
Sorry if it came off that way. I was just listing off my general guidelines for arguing on public forums/areas. Not aimed at you (or really anyone in this thread at all since they’re pretty much following it… on one side at least).

It was more like, “In general, I follow these guidelines, and here’s why” (because there’s always someone lurking). Sorry for the misunderstanding there!

EDIT: And I agree you haven’t been disrespectful :sweat_smile:

EDIT 2: Edited original post to clarify my point!

(eat more) #142

i was like “oh crud an admin is cautioning me on my conduct?! what the?” since you replied TO me.

make sense?

i’m good with my personal rules of conduct :blush:

i think there is a lot of good info in this thread…cited and anecdotal…if a new reader can get past all of the hooey.

#143

Oh geeezzz…no…you are AWESOME, Mikki! So much patience to offer advice and will to do the right thing.

(John) #144

Flagged this thing, maybe we can finally kill it? Nothing is to be gained by it staying here forever except high blood pressure.

Rule
-Don’t divert a topic by changing it midstream.