Dr Davis wrote the books “Wheat Belly” and “Undoctored” and I really like and respect his opinion. However, he has a blog post where he discusses that keto is good only for a short time, but not all the time. He says it is not a good state to be in all the time. Then he says when we are in ketosis, we need more prebotic fibers and our colon will get screwed up. He also quoted child studies from the 20s in which the children got kidney stones from being ketogenic. So what is up? He is a doctor I thought we all liked, but he is going against what we think is so great. What are your thoughts?
Dr William Davis' negative opinion of keto
Brenda
(8 year Ketogenic Veteran)
#2
Yeah. I’m disappointed with his view, after all it was Wheat Belly the led me to Keto. But what I found is all these experts related to the low-carb field have varying ideas on how this works. The way I keep myself sane as I pick the things I’m comfortable with and drop the rest. I also give myself permission to change my mind.
As far as giving the children kidney stones, this might be related to the gallstone attacks people have when they start low carb. It’s not that the low carb diet causes the gallstones, it’s that the gallbladder starts to actually work again on a low-carb diet and move stones that were already there.
SingingKeto
(Beth Andre)
#3
I also think that there is such a large variety of humans out there, and some find keto less compatible with their bodies than we do. It may, in fact, cause some issues for some which causes them to need more carb input. Poor souls. “Wheat Belly” was big in my journey, too!
gillcallaghan
(Gill Callaghan)
#4
Keto diet has been linked to oxalates. People predisposed to stones can develop them. If they become dehydrated, from the diuretic effect of lowering carbs. Hence the need for a well formulated keto diet, with additional fluids and electrolytes.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2852806/
SlowBurnMary
#5
The difference between a “well-formulated” ketogenic lifestyle and a misinformed ketogenic “diet” are huge - and there are individualized approaches such as zero carb, strict keto, keto in the 50 gm net carb range, and LCHF at 100 gm. To not differentiate seems short-sighted. Also, according to Dr. Grace Liu, the microbiome issues requiring prebiotic fiber are most pertinent after 5 or more years primarily related to zero-carb or prolonged strict “induction” keto for many years beyond healthy body recomposition.
Dr. Davis is a cardiologist who’s done great things to question the American industrial disease culture - and he’s looking for root causes to reverse heart disease - but he’s not asking the right questions on this. Being famous, he’s an influencer - and it’s unfortunate that he’s casting doubt on ketogenics and ketogenic IF as a whole. Why not reverse both heart disease, diabetes, and cancer all at the same time???
I don’t think he’s seen the documentary Cereal Killers for starters. You’d think he’d love it.
Yes, microbiome-wise prebiotics matter in a world of damaged guts, as does enzyme production (which can take quite some time to restore via KD) - and I think looking at such things is worthy. However, the top priority is turning around diabetes and cancer and the excess fat that leads to hormonal imbalances - along with helping people’s brains function much better! Once people are stable in the ketogenic way of eating and have experienced the body recomposition needed to sustain health, it’s a great thing to then focus more on microbiome health, resistance weight training, etc. But first things first.
Seems like Dr. Davis’ opinion piece isn’t reflective of deep research but more of conventional thinking. We all have our blindspots and learning curves - but sheesh - it’s disappointing.
marklifestyle
(Mark Rhodes)
#7
We all still struggle with our own cognitive dissonance. Before I got keto I had to say to myself that everything I thought I knew could be wrong and I needed to start over. Once I understood keto I understood that all our knowledge was based on the premise we are primarily glycemic beings. if the following studies are done with this premise even when you “know” better you can often make a claim or opinion with feet still in both shoes.
clackley
(Cathy)
#8
I liked Dr. Davis enough to pay and attend a talk he put on in my city a couple of years ago. I came away with the distinct impression that he is a bit of a ‘huckster’. Not saying that he has not added some really valuable information to the community but he is selling his diet plan and keto is not part of that. He advocates the removal of all grains from the diet. That is a good thing. The rest is not quite as good.
I have been keto for more than 8 yrs. and have very good ‘indicators’ of good health. That might fly in the face of what Dr. Davis has to say about long term keto but it is my reality.
Bellyman
(Brian)
#9
This actually appears to relate to a post I made a few days ago, about what do people eating the keto / low carb way eventually die of.
Has Dr. Davis seen examples of people eating a keto diet that was doing them harm? As already stated, there is a lot of variation in the ways people get to ketogenesis. Are there examples where people have taken something good and gone too far with it?
As a for instance, water is a good thing. Too little and we’re dehydrated, and in extremes of no water, we’ll die in a few days. Too much and we can really mess ourselves up, electrolytes, even drowning. But a moderate amount, not too little, not too much, used appropriately internally and externally is an excellent thing. Has Dr. Davis seen people with serious imbalance in elements of the keto diet? (I don’t know, I didn’t see his actual message.)
Keto6468
(Karen)
#10
Eat your veggies. High fat, moderate protein, low carb.
https://www.drberg.com/blog/the-ketogenic-diet-and-kidney-disease
I have some kidney issues. Protect them in keto.
K
atomicspacebunny
(Bunny)
#12
I would rather die a ketonaut (why I am alive, healthier & happier than I have ever been in my life) with a flexible metabolism to burn both (glucose/ketones) than, an excessive (exclusive) glucose ONLY (this option will deplete quality of life and kill you faster?) burner.
There is no other option (if you want to live longer)!
Which choice can with-stand more or less efficacy?
Nay saying doctors are too lazy to look at what dietary adjustments (really simple to do) need to be made to the ketogenic diet; to make it work correctly in contrast to the problems they are citing. Rather than caving into the pathology bandwagon (climb on board) they are conveying (glittering generalities & extrapolations) for fear of censure contrary to empirical evidence!
richard
(Richard Morris)
#13
One thing worth considering is it is January, everyone is making resolutions to finally lose some weight … and keto is the most googled diet term. Ayone with a book to sell will be doing anything they can to glom onto that traffic. Saying the keto diet is not good for the long term is a statement crying out for a citation.
Show me the science buddy.
BTW I’m not going to accept his attempted scare about a lack of pre-biotic fibre to feed my gut biome to cause them to make butyrate to feed to the enterocytes in my gut wall … when I am making hand over fist the ACTUAL substrate that my gut cells are looking for and convert butyric acid into… beta-hydroxybutyrate.
EZB
(Ethan)
#14
Interestingly, the latest LVLLC episode, Jimmy’s guest Craig Emmerich cited a study or paper stating that collagen actually does a better job of feeding gut flora than plant fiber. I’d like to look into that a little more.
collaroygal
(KCKO, KCFO)
#16
I too liked Wheat Belly very much. I do have a sensitivity to wheat and the book educated me a lot in that area.
Studies for the 20s on children probably involved the epileptic children. Since that is when most of the beginning research on keto started.
Dr. Fung is a kidney disease specialist, so I think I will stick to his advice when it comes to what is safe and what is not safe for my kidneys. I have had two bouts of kidney infections in my life once while vegetarian, and the other during menopausal phase. I now realize they were related to periods of too many sugars and too much carbs.
So I am just gonna KCKO and do some fasting, works for my body.
atomicspacebunny
(Bunny)
#19
If we’re to summarize the points being made in that article, the answer is simple:
-
Cut back on sugar intake (no need to cut natural organic carbs down to ridiculous levels)
-
Eliminate highly refined carbohydrates and sugars (e.g. sucrose mixed with fructose) .
-
Stay away from trans fats
And you have a natural occurring ketogenic metabolism (an even balance between glucose, ketones and BHB) that nature intended?
The definition “ketogenic diet” then “is dangerous” is really a play on words not the real overall picture attempted to be portrayed as something it is not?
Maintaining an artificial metabolism is the blind side to this, because of the type of food being manufactured and its likeliness to be consumed, so everything revolves around the inorganic vs. what is natural and organic?
A high octane metabolism (exclusively glucose) powered by laboratory grade sugar, carbohydrate and preservative combinations are not natural or organic by any stretch of the imagination?