Dr. Phinney's take on fasting

(Jacquie) #21

Since there isn’t a clear answer among these two ‘experts’, I think one may be better off to consider one’s own situation rather than a blanket across the board response that applies to everyone. I’m an older female (69 yrs old), 5’2" 110lbs, approx. 85 lbs of lbm, active (weights, HIIT and lots of outdoor functional exercise), think ectomorph with endomorph tendencies, was pre-diabetic but have good BG numbers now. As soon as I read @richard’s article a while ago, it all made sense. I usually fast between 14-18hrs. I want the benefits of autophagy but it’s tricky. I think the greatest risk at my age is loss of lbm and I’ll do whatever I can to hold on to or even try to increase it. I’d welcome any further suggestions from you guys. :slight_smile:

(carl) #22

At 110 I think fasting might not be a good idea for you, no? You may have to “fat fast” to make sure you get enough calories from fat and protect your lbm, as you say.

(Erin Macfarland ) #23

I suspect too that if you are healthy without any metabolic issues, and lean, there is probably less “scavenging” to be done so you may not require the same degree of repair that someone who is IR or T2D would need. There is probably less inflammation in general, so when your body is telling you that you can fast for shorter periods of time, it is a natural signal that your systems are adjusting for your own personal physiological needs. For folks with higher amounts of body fat, and metabolic issues, their bodies are going to tolerate the longer fasts because they have more inflammation and repair to do. It almost seems like being heavier with larger amounts of body fat is preferred in relation to discussions around fasting because it enables you to engage in the longer fasts, but those of us with less stored energy are essentially left out of the discussion, despite the fact that for people who reach their “goal weight” or body composition, they will need to adjust their approach to how much fasting they can tolerate.

(John) #24

I think in any setting with an audience of more than 1 and trying to translate to the layperson that you have to make some pretty broad generalizations and as we know better than most, everybody is way more different than we thought.

I am curious though about the nature of his comment, he said around 1:12:00 that this was a discussion for the scientific community but nobody seemed to be willing to have it with him.

I am to a point now where I have a little more fat to lose but not a lot, and I have been working on building muscle, fasting sounds like a great way to lose the fat but I don’t think it is worth the risk of muscle loss for me. As with all things diet, I should have done it a long time ago!

(Jacquie) #25

Agreed! Even now, I may have a breakfast of bacon, eggs and coffee (OMG, 3 meals lol) but I never snack or eat after 6pm. When I cut out night eating years ago, that made a world of difference to how I felt. I wasn’t testing BG then, so who knows what was happening there. Probably not good things. I think that being older than most folks here is another variable that impacts how I’d approach fasting.

(Jacquie) #26

@Emacfarland Oh, but I’m pre-diabetic, which is another variable. On the thin side but pre-diabetic. I was prescribed metformin a few years ago, which I still take (more for health longevity, as I get good BG numbers). I have no side effects.

(Erin Macfarland ) #27

I do like how he discussed “fat hunger” which is exactly what I would describe I feel after eating a dinner comprised of two pounds of fatty meat but am still feeling hungry after. I want MORE of the fat from the meat. If I go to bed feeling hungry still and I wake up in the middle of the night and my stomach is hurting because I’m so hungry all I want is to get up and cook up some crispy fat from a steak or pork!

(Alex Dipego) #28

This is why I try to eat before bed, something really fatty. I wake up feeling great too.

(Crow T. Robot) #29

Though respect the crap out of Dr. Phinney, between the two only Dr. Fung is an expert on fasting. He deals with actual fasting patients daily. Dr. Phinney is making conservative guesses based on some limited studies. To your point, though, everyone should always consider their own situation regardless of how many ‘experts’ seem to agree.

(John Nunez) #30

Now this is what an intelligible discussion regarding a somewhat controversial topic should look like! I don’t think this discussion would have been this poised had we still been in the FB group.

(Joel Abdul) #31

Man I love these forums…

Long term thoughts: In Dr Fung’s Fasting book, Jimmie Moore stated that his DEXA scan results showed a drop in muscle after his fast. Then when he retested a few weeks later, it showed the same as before. Dr Phyinney is probably right in the immediacy but Dr Fung has seen the healing effect in his patients over a longer period of time.

As a comparison: It’s kind of like lifting weights. You lift to damage the muscle and create micro tears but it takes a recovery phase to rebuild back stronger.

#32

MeganRamos is the cohost you refer to. I believe she is lean and very petite. She has continuous experience with fasting patients, both lean and obese, men and women.

(Erin Macfarland ) #33

How the HELL does she fast for 3 days?? If she’s lean that’s gonna cause some problems I’d imagine.

(Crow T. Robot) #34

She’s lean and petite now, but she lost 80 lbs to get that way.

(Gabor Erdosi) #35

In this case I side with Cahill and Owen.

(Erin Macfarland ) #36

I am 80 lbs lighter than my heaviest weight while pregnant but I can’t fast for 3 days!

#37

Are you saying you can’t fast now that you are 80 lbs lighter? Or were you unable to fast that long when you were 80 lbs heavier?

(Erin Macfarland ) #38

I never fasted when I was heavier. I was pregnant at that size. I only started incorporating IF when I transitioned to keto. But I don’t have enough body fat now to sustain me during a 3 day fast. If she is that lean I don’t know how it would be possible for her to go that long. I only have 12% body fat. According to the formula Richard often references I can only utilize about 300 calories per day from my energy stores. This is why I can’t do long fasts. She must still have a decent amount of stored energy if she can go that long.

#39

I think you misunderstood what Chris_W posted, in that Megan used fasting as a strategy to reduce weight (and other health issues). I listened to the podcast and understood the same thing. So, when she was 80 lbs heavier, she successfully fasted.

(Erin Macfarland ) #40

Gotcha, I thought I had heard her mention on a recent episode that she’d fasted for three days. I’m actually curious about the physiology of what would happen if you’re lean and you fasted that long. Would you start breaking down muscle?