Dr Fung's longevity solution

(mole person) #82

I don’t think he has. His recommendation of 0.6 grams is based on total weight and is meant for a population that is actively losing fat. He argues for this number based on the fact that fat loss also must lead to catabolism of all the protein structures that supports it. In light of that very fact it never made sense that he would have meant the same for a population that had no fat to lose.

(Robert C) #83

And (maybe I am saying the same thing here) wouldn’t using Dr. Fung’s fasting protocol (if water fasting) bring about a lot of autophagy, reducing the need for dietary protein? I have no idea if autophagy is on the order of a couple of grams per day or up closer to an amount that could essentially make up for in intentional 20% dietary deficit.

(Lynn Chodur) #84

And what did the professor say?

#85

I preordered and then read the book through when I got it. The whole analysis of blue zones seemed off to me. The part of having protein be half from plants and half from animals didn’t seem well founded to me. It did have some interesting information on salt. Of course I never read the salt fix so that is probably what that information is from.
What bothered me more than anything was the product placement. While I think giving an example of a specific website or brand where you could find something that fit the previous explanation isn’t bad, it’s more than that. What tipped the scale for me on the product placement was an entire page that was talking about the health benefits of a specific meal replacement bar.
I have no idea how much kickback the authors are getting for any of that. For their trouble I hope they are getting some. Otherwise all that product placement did was made me really doubt the sincerity of anything coming out in the future from the authors.

(Susan) #86

All the interviews I have seen with him, he certainly emphasizes the fasting and IF and says he himself does OMAD 2-4 times a week, and considers that as an almost 24 hour fast. Is he now saying that plus when we do eat, balance out our low carb veggies and meats? Maybe he is not an advocate of the Keto carnivore then from what I am gathering?

(Bob M) #87

This is completely wrong and unsupported by scientific evidence. I keep seeing more and more people (like me) who can eat MASSIVE amounts of protein and it affects ketosis either little or not at all.

Furthermore, the whole idea behind MTOR being activated by protein is questionable at best.

What I have found about reading Dr. Fung’s website is that he can misread studies based in his biases. For instance, he read a study where people took a vitamin (forget which one) to see whether it helped with some disease (heart?) and found that it increased the incidence of cancer by 20%. Dr. Fung took that to mean that the vitamin increased cancer. However, that was relative risk. The absolute risk was tiny.

After that, I only followed his fasting advice (and even this I think might be suspect), and the only reason I did so was because fasting does seem to work for me, and fasting >24 hours does seem to be critical.

(Bob M) #88

For instance, here are the effects of high protein (filled circles) versus high fat (open circles) on BHB for cyclists:

image

Looking at Table 1, they ate about 4,000 calories per day for each diet, about 200 grams carbs each diet, 139g protein and 316g fat in high fat and 680g (!!!) protein, 69 g fat in high protein.

https://www.fasebj.org/doi/10.1096/fj.201700993R

Yet their BHB levels are basically the same.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #89

I eat a lot of protein on some days. Not as much as you do. It does not drop me out of ketosis and I’m still losing weight. I think the warnings about protein are mostly unfounded.

I crave protein most days over fat. But my body is, hopefully, burning its own fat most days. I still have at least 30 lbs to go.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #90

I eat a lot of protein on some days. Not as much as you do. It does not drop me out of ketosis and I’m still losing weight. I think the warnings about protein are mostly unfounded.

I crave protein most days over fat. But my body is, hopefully, burning its own fat most days. I still have at least 30 lbs to go.

For some reason, I can’t post this so I’m adding this sentence to see if it will let me post.

(hottie turned hag) #91

Me too bruh. No way I want to stay alive until deterioration stage. Hellnaw.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #92

The new hosting service is less expensive, which means, among other things, that their servers are slower. So by the nature of things, there’s more lag in the system and we will experience delays at peak-use times. I don’t believe the system was refusing your post, just delayed in getting it posted. Patience, grasshopper!

Anyone desirous of returning to the faster, more high-powered service on which we started out should review costs with the Dudes and see what they can do to help. I’m sure the Dudes would appreciate it greatly. There is also a Patreon page for the Ketogenic Forums, if you’d like to help out that way.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #93

It did refuse my post. Said it was similar to another one.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #94

Ah, that’s different. In such a case, the software only advises; you can override it.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #95

Article in the AARP Bulletin today. Says keto is not safe for seniors as it limits protein. Getting tired of these badly-researched articles.

(Diane) #96

Wow! That’s just so inaccurate.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #97
(Empress of the Unexpected) #98

Thanks @amwassil. It is strange that the sidebars talk about the benefits of keto for Alzheimer’s and cancer. But the title in the bulletin I received specifically reads “but it may not be wise or safe for older bodies.”

Yes, I’m getting a bit more carbish, but how anyone could have issues with meat and vegetables, some dairy and nuts, is beyond me. And the eight hour eating window?. That was the default when I was a kid in the 60’s. Sometimes nine.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #99

The article sets up a strawman, ie a hypothetical 2000 calorie so-called ketogenic diet, and then attacks it for ‘allowing’ only 300 calories (75 grams of protein). Also mentions ‘keto flu’ as if it’s a chronic condition once acquired can not be cured.

Cutting protein to “go keto” means potentially sacrificing muscle mass — and that’s a big trade-off to burn a little bit of belly fat. Bottom line: Talk to your doctor first, and approach keto diets carefully and cautiously.

When did cutting carbs translate to cutting protein?

(Empress of the Unexpected) #100

I noticed that. I’m usually 1200 calories and 60 grams of protein (or way more when I get deep into the nuts and seeds.). As I mentioned, I am increasing carbs, but still depend on the protein.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #101

There is a myth in keto circles that excess protein increases glucose. I am living proof it does not. Until the last couple of weeks, I have been in constant ketosis, eating meat three times a day. And it makes sense that older people need more protein for muscle growth.