Dr Boz Calculates levels of autophagy using blood sugar/blood ketones ratio


(Karim Wassef) #62

Why does it seem contradictory? Fat is the preferred source of energy so if you consume high fat, you’ll be satisfied faster and your body will start clearing out your liver fat. Carbs, and especially fructose (from the always-healthy-for-you fruits) can only be metabolized in the liver… and with carbs, your insulin will stop any fat burning and push the pedal to fat storage.

Our bodies are not simple machines. They’re amazing dynamic and adaptive systems that do their best with the carbage we throw at them. They metabolize alcohols and carbs first because they are the most dangerous and need to be removed or sequestered before they cause rapid damage. So the liver takes the brunt of it to keep us alive… this is not good for the liver, but it’s better than brain damage. Once you switch to fats, the liver can finally rest and start working the way it was intended to.


(Herb Martin) #63

Fuggs,

You have to decide for you.

All of the advice comes with the caveat “talk to your doctor”.

However, that’s actually unrealistic for some of us as the docs either don’t know or aren’t allowed to deviate from the approved protocols.

I am good with doing my own monitoring but that’s JUST ME. So I have my eye on a LONG extended fast, but first tomorrow is 7 days, then I’ll see about 14.

If 14 is good, then it will depend on my monitoring and how I feel but 4-6 weeks seems POSSIBLE.

Just heard Dr. Benjamin Bikman on BioHackers YouTube “Best Diet for Insulin Resistance”. These guys agreed that even 0.5 ketones means your Insulin is DOWN:

They went further and said that even a 0.2 or 0.3 should be considered a sign that insulin is down.


(Doug) #64

Herb, yes indeed - that makes sense. I think anybody that fasts for 24 hours is likely having it increase, and from there on things get really good. Really need studies on humans to see what actually happens in different tissues, and just how much increase is possible. Autophagy is flat-out fascinating.

If one is fasting, that glucose isn’t going to last very long - the actual amount of blood sugar is negligible, and between the glycogen stored in the liver and muscle tissue it’s really only about one day’s supply, at most.

It makes me wonder what happens when fasting with insulin resistance and higher-than-average blood sugar. The liver’s making glucose for the relatively few parts of the body that do have to have it. Blood sugar is running higher than it would be without insulin resistance - I assume the liver ends up making more to account for the decreased efficiency at getting it to where it needs to go.

If different tissues have different uptake rates or thresholds, i.e. some take in glucose “easier,” then it raises the specter of a vicious cycle, especially if the tissues favor glucose. Body parts A and B are taking glucose off the top, leaving less for C and D which don’t take it in as easily - so now the liver has to make even more in response to the needs of C and D. The body certainly bends over backwards to defend the blood sugar level. Not saying this is horrible - I’m assuming the liver would just be using more fat to make glucose.


(Karim Wassef) #65

Agreed. I think that fasting blood glucose should be a baseline measurement when fasting for extended periods… so fast three days and use the lowest blood sugar reading as the “equivalent normal fasted glucose” of 55, let’s say for the GKI calculation. Then during longer fasts (a week or more), this can be a more personal measure of aurophagy.

This probably needs to be recalibrated before each long fast, but it should work.

Over time, the pre-fast 3-day calibration glucose should be an indication of insulin resistance remission.

When I started this journey a couple of years ago, my fasted glucose was 120.


(Paul) #66

I suppose it seems contrary from the dogma we have been brainwashed over all these years, that dietary fat causes fat. All I read says it doesnt and I love egg, bacon and black pudding, but it still, mentally seems a paradox that eating that will still allow your liver to de-fat.

Certainly there is zero point in talking to my Doctor about nutrition and wellbeing. If he cant get you on statins, flu jabs and other money making ideas…well you know what I mean.

I agree, I also never fail to be amazed just how fabulous our bodies are at sorting things out and looking after our (itself)
As I struggle with long fasts, I will continue on one meal a day, HFLC and see if that helps the liver out.

After a few days on OMAD, my morning blood glucose is still around 7 or 8 mmol (146-164) but I presume that is still liver dumping despite me being very hard on carb intake (<20)
I have taken on (3rd week) Couch to 5k routine in the evening, and have my meal after that, effectively exercising after 22 hrs fasting, hopefully to deplete fat from the muscles and regain insulin sensitivity.
I dont know however it this routing is as effective as 3+ days fast.


(Herb Martin) #67

The basic adaptation, oversimplified, is this:

  • Burn glucose first since it’s dangerous in high levels
  • Store fat if not burning it – for a cold and rainy day
  • Switch to fat STORES when the food runs out

Get through the winter, a famine, or a few failed hunts

Glucogon and Insulin are basically antagonists, both made in the pancreas. Glucogon is catabolic mobilizing fat stores while Insulin is anabolic storing fat plus pushing glucose into the cells.
Glucogon is made in pancreatic Alpha cells very near to Insulin being made in Beta cells. One is suppressed when the other is activated.

Insulin turns off ketone use so ketones are a strong proxy for down regulated insulin.


(Herb Martin) #68

Dr. Boz’s book is title: “Anyway You Can” and Dr. Fung makes it clear he believes this too.

People want to figure out what it best, but know one knows for certain.

Long fasts have the clear advantage of getting the heavy lifting done sooner but shorter fasts and OMAD type fasts have the advantage of pretty much anyone can do them – or learn.

Do what you can and whatever works. Anyway you can.

I am an impatient person, so I push for the whole thing, but I do have a plan to drop back to regular short fasts and regular OMAD etc. with perhaps a long fast 1-4 times per year.

I am thinking a 2-week fast once a year, a week each quarter, 3-days per month, 1-day per week, or something along those lines.

Also, if I am ever “bad” again, the ‘penalty’ will be to fast heavily until the damage is repaired.


(Karen) #69

Just tried my keto mojo. Used 4 bg strips. Finally did it right. Fasting BG 90. Didn’t do keto strip yet because only fasted 24 hours.


(Karim Wassef) #70

You can do keto strips anytime. Why are you waiting to be fasted longer than 24hrs?


(Herb Martin) #71

If you came to the fast from keto then you are probably well into ketosis.

My wife is trying to start a keto diet and has just gotten the ketones to 0.5 then 0.7 (both technically nutritional ketosis) in the last 2 days.

I bought a Precision meter because my wife already had a bunch of compatible meters for glucose due to T2D (which she reversed 6 months ago with diet and dropped her Januvia.)


(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #72

Just tested, fasting from last night after supper:
BG 77 (4.2), BK 3.7, GKI 1.15

Today I had 2 tbsp of flaxseed oil.
Last night’s macros (including flaxseed oil from the afternoon)


(Karen) #73

So if I’m cheap, where’s the best place to get the Ketone strips for keto mojo? Additionally if I only use one a day when is the best time to use it? Before breakfast?


(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #74

Karen,

Right now they are selling ketone and BG in a bundle. https://keto-mojo.com/collections/all/products/keto-mojo-gki-promo-bundle

Time of day - depends on what you are trying to do. In the morning if you have dawn effect then BG will be up and ketones down. After exercise I think ketones will be down but not sure of BG.

I have dawn effect so I want to measure in the morning 1 or 2 / month to see if my fasting values are improving. I’m mostly doing this in EF so I can tell when I’m strongly in autophagy (GKI, Dr Boz ratios).

this fast right now 31 hrs yesterday, them tonight at 54+ hrs. Tomorrow right before I breakfast. So maybe 66 to 72 hrs.

Hope this helps.


(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #75

Convince your doctor for a prescription!


(Karen) #76

Not likely to happen as I am not diabetic


(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #77

I’m not either, but mine wrote a prescription. Its worth a try. You can try explaining that you are wanting to keep track of blood sugar and ketones because you are eating ketogenic.


(Karen) #78

That’s a good promotional. Do they have it often? I looked on Amazon and this is much better


(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #79

Karen

Don’t know. I just got my meter about a month ago and bought this bundle 2 weeks ago.


(Herb Martin) #80

What Rebecca said, and do note:

If you are significantly overweight, have an elevated insulin level (requires a lab test but ask for that too when you get your blood done), etc. you may be “pre-diabetic”, have metabolic syndrome, or be insulin resistant.

Actually these are all pretty much the same thing as diabetes just at different levels of severity.

My wife had (?) Type 2 Diabetes but the doc had her drop her medicine and return to a low carb diet and it resolved immediately.

Do that mean she is completely cured? Probably not.

Is she now “pre-diabetic”? (Or post-diabetic?) Probably in the effective sense if not a literal one.

One thing about Rebecca’s excellent suggestion: If you don’t ask it won’t happen and if you do ask the worst the doc can say is, “No.”


(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #81

This shows effect of stress. Like 4 or 5 stressors that are unusual in my life and my GKI Boz Ratio reflects this. I’m already subject to the dawn effect so I’m guessing cortisol is a big easy to trigger. 54+ hrs of strict water/tea fasting and a Boz ratio of 4.1. Last night at 31 hrs they were better (Boz 55, GKI 1.2).

I’m motivated to get to ~72 hrs tomorrow. Will check one more time.