Doing well with 100 NCP diet

(less is more, more or less) #8

:astonished: the very editorial thought that crossed my mind after I typed this. :astonished:

#10

Woke up with FBG 79 this morning! Lowest I’ve had in probably a year. Bumped Tresiba down 2 units to 6 units per day now. Hopefully off Tresiba altogether sometime soon.

Also my Fasting BHB is higher than previous day, at 0.9 instead of 0.8. However, my uric acid is at 7.5 this morning, despite taking 300mg Allopurinol each day – I have gout . So far joints not hurting too badly, if it worsens and UA remains high I’ll have to talk to doctor what I can do, but I am not quitting this diet. I know 300mg allopurinol is considered max dose, but I am over 360 lbs, so maybe my body weight means I can take more? I dunno… I’ll ask doctor.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #11

Since you are eating between 80 and 100 g of protein daily, you are surely getting enough, so that is not a worry. It has now been discovered that gluconeogenesis is driven by need, not by oversupply, so you need not fear getting more protein, either—when eating a low-carb diet, at any rate. (The insulinogenic effect of protein is negligible on a low-carb diet, seriously concerning on a high-carb diet.)

The lectures by Dr. Phinney that got me into this way of eating all contained the suggestion to limit carbohydrate to 100-125 g/day, as a means of getting into ketosis. Since joining these forums, I have come to understand that’s a high level of intake for someone who has suffered a lot of metabolic damage, but I find it reassuring to know that there is a fair amount of leeway, depending on our individual circumstances. We have to note, too, of course, that Dr. Phinney is now recommending a carbohydrate limit of 50 g/day, now that he is working with diabetics, instead of fat-adapted athletes.

ETA: As I’ve commented in other posts, I have reason to believe that I could remain in ketosis at a higher level of carbohydrate intake, but I prefer to keep my intake as low as I can because for me sugar and other carbohydrates function as addictive subtances.

#12

FBG 85 mg/dL. Weight 365.40. Down 8.6 lbs in past 8 days. No hunger at all.
Stopping insulin today. Sticking with this plan! (~20g net carbs & ~85g protein).

#13

This Keto Carnivoire diet seems popular right now. Jimmy Moore is talking about it and I see there people talking about it here on this forum. Never heard much about it since I read the forums over a year ago. (I’ve read all Moore’s books, Fung’s as well as Phinney/Volek & Taubes.) I have lost like 100 pounds on Keto / Low Carb and maintained for a couple years now, but I gained 20 of that back over the past 6 months or so because I didn’t bother to count my macronutrients… I ate low carb, avoiding all grains, starchy veggies etc… but ate as much meat as I wanted. Blood sugar got out of control upwards of 160 fasting recently. So this is why I got desperate and decided to start tracking things again, glad I did because I feel better than I have in over a year.

I might try the keto carnivoire diet sometime in the future, but for now I am going to stick with what gave me great results a few of the weeks over a year ago, and recently.

Thanks for the suggestions. My insulin resistance is very high at HOMA-IR of 3.65 and well I get in a viscious cycle , even eating low carb diet, and the more and more I eat , even if it has been mostly protein, the hungrier I get and blood sugar worsens… having to then resume taking insulin to keep blood sugar down because of the pain it causes my legs etc.

(less is more, more or less) #14

Here’s where it gets interesting. Does Phinney count net or total?

<Shakes magic 8 ball with the question in mind, and finds the following>

https://blog.virtahealth.com/net-vs-total-carbs-keto/

We recommend counting total carbohydrates, with most of your food coming from real, whole foods.

In your face, @CarlKeller! :wink:

More seriously, it matters. Net carbs make for lousy calculations and the delta can become so great as to make Net carbs a meaningless measure, regardless of whatever psychological or emotional comfort they might provide.

Let’s put a nice bow on this discussion.

https://blog.virtahealth.com/how-many-carbs-ketogenic-diet/

Thus, to remain in sustained nutritional ketosis you may want to initially consume closer to 30 grams per day; and then while tracking fingerstick blood ketones (the urine test is undependable) explore your personal level of carbohydrate tolerance while maintaining your metabolic health.

For our purposes on this forum, most people asking are in the initial phase. We old-timers can argue whether a maintenance phase of carb tolerance goes to a different value.

FWIW: my body hates those damn carbs, and I remain at 20 - 30 total carbs.

Anyone counting total carbs?
#15

Why would I count indigestible fiber? I am not counting the 3g fiber of the 4g total carbs in 1 oz of pecans for example. Why would I? They have 1g of starch that’s it. Doesn’t make sense to count fiber. The fiber doesn’t raise blood glucose.

(Carl Keller) #16

I would try a broccoli fast to see how my body responds to say, a hundred carbs worth per day, but my addiction to fatty meat is more compelling than my curiousity. I also expect I would be quite hungry since there’s nothing in a crucifer that will pacify my ghrelin. :stuck_out_tongue:

(less is more, more or less) #17

You’re free to do as you wish. I only snark at @CarlKeller. I had the same reserve you expressed when I asked Dr. Westman the very same question. His response was that it doesn’t matter whether fiber or sugar, count them all for “prescription” strength low-carb eating. In retrospect, it has stood me well. This also goes to my “calculation error” argument. Dr. Westman stresses that the diet should not be introducing so much complexity. It’s easier to track total carbs over net.

That said, Dr. Westman also says that you may be fine with net carbs. When a beginner asks, however, “count total” is the better answer, whether fiber-from-unicorns or sugar-from-Dominos. I would add that Dr. Westman’s experience covers thousands of patients, and he’s a fan of an evidence-based approach.

#18

I have no problems tracking net carbs personally. MyNetDiary does it all for me and my NC+P total is sent to my Apple Watch real time. It’s just one number I need to look at . I just usually select my recipe from MyNetDiary… make the single entry and look at my Apple Watch NCP value. Once it gets near 100 I am very careful not to exceed say 107 for the day.

I would go by just how I feel and not count macronutrients but I tried that and it doesn’t work. I am so heavily insulin resistant and a raging diabetic, things get out of hand quickly. If I track it closely, no hunger and good blood glucose control as well as weight loss. So I can’t just go by the typical advice given by atkins, moore & phinney/volek to eat to satiety. Have to count it.

#19

Here is a photo of my Apple Watch I just took. Right now I am using an app/complication someone else coded, and it just shows Protein grams as well as Net Carb grams individually, along with my last blood sugar test (I check at least three times per day).

I am going to have to code an app/complication myself for iPhone/Watch in Swift which will sum the NC and Protein and show it as one value, but currently I quickly have to add it in my head to see where I am for the day.

Once I code that, I’ll add other things. Basically I can get 6 pieces of info on those 3 lines using 2 columns instead of one. I’ll be including estimated A1C (using last 6 weeks of data in Apple Health database). Then I’ll have room for three more bits of useful info on the watch once I figure out what I want… perhaps last body weight measurement (I weigh every day after getting up after peeing before I eat or drink anything).

IMG_2272
IMG_2272.jpg2278×2475 970 KB

I’d like the first line on the watch to read, e.g.:
NCP: 94 (18/76)

(less is more, more or less) split this topic #20

5 posts were merged into an existing topic: My How You’ve Grown!

#25

Fasting BG: 77 mg/dL – down from 139-160 mg/dL over 12 days ago
Fasting BHB (Blood Ketones): 1.4 mmol/L
Fasting Weight: 363.3 lbs – down 2.0 pound since yesterday – down 10.6 lbs in past 9 days.
Second day off insulin – was taking over 80 units per day 45 days or so ago.

I’m ecstatic. This is the best day I have had so far in the past 3 years since my journey to control Type 2 Diabetes. Best week I have had hands down. Also I’ve never eaten less than 110g Net Carbs + Protein per day before and I’m doing that every day now for past 9 days. Going to continue with this! I’ve been morbidly obese all my life… highest weight was like 455 lbs.

(The amazing autoimmune 🦄) #26

Happy for you that you found something that works for you. Isn’t it a great relief to feel like finally something that will work.

(less is more, more or less) split this topic #27

5 posts were split to a new topic: My How You’ve Grown!

#30

Maybe you guys can start your own thread to discuss the fine details of Phinney etc? This thread is about how limiting both carbs and protein is helping me out :slight_smile:

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #31

You’d be very unpleasant to sit next to on a broccoli fast.

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #32

Congrats. It’s now how I would do it, but n=1, and I am not you.

#35

I am eating ketogenic diet. About 20g net carbs per day and moderate protein at about 85g per day. What would you do differently?

(Carl Keller) #36

No worries. We all have a bad day here and there. :slight_smile:

In this forum, you never know where a thread will end up. Just think of the topic as springboard for other ideas and thoughts. I’ve learned and laughed quite a bit when the replies stray from the intended course. :slight_smile:

On that note:

You’ve made me realize another NSV. My greenhouse gas emissions have dropped significantly since going LCHF. Keto is not just friendly to those nearest to me, it’s Earth friendly too. :slight_smile: