Does knowing someone is vegan color (or colour if you like that) your perception of them?

(Bob M) #1

Last night, I went to see a band with my daughter and her friend. I thought they were fantastic and extremely talented.

I looked them up this morning, and learned the lead singer/songwriter/musician is vegan.

That almost immediately colored (negatively) my idea of him. On Twitter and Threads, the vegans there can be…crazy. Militant. The whole “Meat is Murder!” vibe.

And I don’t know any vegans personally. I get a potentially skewed idea of what they are like.

Does learning someone is vegan color your opinion of them in any way?

(PS–I’m still listening to their music now. I just have to somehow reconcile my experience with vegans with this music.)

#2

Not really as it says virtually nothing about them, not much even about their diet…

I saw horrid hateful intolerant vegans and cinnamon roll lovely ones too.
Some vegan cooks meat for their family… I never cooked meat when I was a mere vegetarian :smiley: But it’s my selfish self, I don’t often cook vegs now either…
And their diet is surely nutritious and healthy for some of them. Trickier than doing the same with keto I suppose and apparently impossible to do for some people, no matter how hard they try… But it works for some.

Many reasons for not to eat meat I can relate to as I was a vegetarian and had multiple such reasons for it.

So if someone is a vegan, it says about nothing to me. I still need to get learn them personally to be able to form an opinion.

I don’t say I don’t feel a tiny bit closer to a carnivore than a vegan at this point of my life but being different isn’t bad :slight_smile:

So… They are human. I see the exact same type of attitude problems among ketoers and carnivores too. Well carnivores are usually lovely on this forum but I heard it’s not always the case (it would be a miracle, they are humans…). And even the basically pretty nice ketoers on this forum can be horribly biased and intolerant. Sometimes I feel the need to protect veg eaters here. Just because I don’t like vegs and carnivore is my chosen default woe, I don’t understand why it would be a problem to eat vegs galore if that works for someone and gives them joy. But people have some weird perceptions anyway and can’t imagine people feeling or functioning quite differently from them.

(KM) #3

My perception of vegan is, “well meaning but misinformed.” Yes, “well meaning” can verge on a cultish-religious flavor, which I find tiring. The debate of “I feel and believe so don’t talk to me about science’”, vs. “here’s some actual facts to back up my position so shut up about your opinion already”, never goes well for anyone.

#4

I’m not proud of it, but it does.

I’ve made a friend and was super happy to meet her, because she likes long walks and so do I. Then I’ve found out she’s vegan. I was so disappointed! The problem is that I can’t be myself, because they judge you. I have a friend who’s a vegetarian and I’ve decided not to invite her to my place again, because of how judgemental she’s about things in my home/kitchen.

I have another new friend I was also very happy to meet for walks and lunch together close to my work. Then she became vegan.

I’d be ok if they’d just let me be. But there’s the constant judging that makes it unpleasant.

The crazy thing is that I’d love to be a vegetarian myself (not vegan), if I could eat more carbs. I prefer veggies than meat, for instance, and could live the rest of my life happily, without eating meat ever again.

It’s not only vegans. Here, people are deep into organic everything. So, when you invite friends, they’ll comment when something in your house isn’t organic.

They think it’s for your good, like people who believe and gods and try to talk about it with you, thinking it’s a favor.

(Jane) #5

I have 2 friends at work who are vegan - one just an aquaintance so we never talk about diet. He is rail thin and looks unhealthy but I would never comment on it. I have known him 34 years.

The other friend I eat out with when I am in Houston and I’ve known her for 36 years. She knows I am keto and could care less and never comments on me ordering meat and a salad. I never comment on her vegan meals either - not appropriate.

But these are long-term friends we have mutual respect for. And not young people poisoned by social media, so that may be the difference.

On a larger scale I get angry at the anti-meat messages and cow farts contribute to global warming. Such nonsense. Nothing I can do about it, but I fear it will make meat harder to get in the future and way more expensive. At least I live in a rural area where I can buy meat from a farm if I have to. Just need to add a second freezer.

(Joey) #6

So often true.

And I’m certain that - despite my attempts at discretion - my enthusiam about keto is equally obnoxious to others.

In short, humans are rarely as tolerant (nor as tolerable) as we’d wish ourselves to be. :man_shrugging:

(Jane) #7

Oh, and one of my new neighbors is vegetarian so I always accomodate her when we have her family over and at the New Year’s Eve party I hosted 2 years ago I made a separate lasagne (homemade noodles and yes, I had a small portion) without meat and she really appreciated it. She kept saying she could find something to eat but it was no trouble to accomodate her. At least vegetarian is easier than vegan. I don’t even know all the rules for vegans - just know no meat or fish for vegetarians and I am good!

Anyway, she never criticizes anyone from eating meat or makes negative comments. She and her son are vegetarian but the daughter and husband are not, so she wouldn’t say anything anyway.

(Geoffrey) #8

No more than I do with someone who eats SAD. Sure, initially the thought comes to mind that I wouldn’t do that and I feel a little sad that they are misguided, in my opinion, but I try to remember that they aren’t much different than me in the respect that we are both trying to be healthy but in different ways.
I’ve known two vegetarians. One was slim and beautiful. Raised in the Seventh Day Adventist church. In fact we have a town here in Texas that is primarily SDA and that’s where she’s from. She is always sick.
The other is a woman who is vegetarian because as she puts it, “I just can’t eat anything that has a face.” She got mad at me when I said that sounded like a psychological issue but then laughed when then next day I gave her a cantaloupe with a smiley face drawn on it. She’s fat, sickly and a smoker.
If I don’t want to be judged then I shouldn’t judge others, it’s just that simple.
I don’t really care what others think about how I eat. It doesn’t hurt my feelings one bit and if they choose to judge me then so be it. I’m always ready to defend my position if need be.
Do you agree with everyone on this forum on how they eat. I certainly don’t but I don’t judge them for it. After all, we are all different and have our own journey’s to take.
The greatest testament one can have is to be a good example.

(Jane) #9

:+1:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #10

Has anyone ever studied human farts and burps in this context? I would love to see a comparison. (And it would be interesting so see the human data cross-tabulated by diet, too.)

The other line that angers me is, “But you’re cutting out an entire food group!” And you’re not doing the same?

Interestingly, Gary Taubes has said that he interviewed a doctor in the American Midwest (I’ve heard him say her name, but I don’t know how to spell it) who treats patients with a ketogenic diet. She has to eat an exclusively meat-free diet in order to remain healthy. Dr. Georgia Ede, on the other hand, has to eat an exclusively plant-free diet in order to remain healthy. Both women have stated they don’t eat that way for any a priori reason, but simply because it keeps them at their healthiest.

(Bob) #11

HA! I never thought of that. Just how much are our farts damaging the environment. And we all know vegans fart more than carnivores, lol. They might be as bad as the cows, lol :smiley:

(Ronald Weaver) #12

Vegans never fart ?

#13

Not so crazy to me though I am fine with carnivore-ish as my default woe. I do like meat. I never would miss meat if I was fine with mere low-carb and maybe even keto, I was vegetarian for long (or almost as I had meat a few times a year out of convenience at restaurants. vegetarian food in most restaurant around here wasn’t for me), on high-carb, low-carb and keto… Never missed meat.
But then it turned out my body prefers extreme low plant carbs/plant matter (it’s not like I can try to half-live on gluten and protein powder…) so meat is unavoidable for me now. It’s fine, I like it but I don’t feel meat itself is directly necessarily, merely indirectly as I don’t have enough options with close to no plants…
So I am the ex-vegetarian who has zero problem with vegetarianism and even I almost could go back. I could go back for real but it wouldn’t be ideal or very easy.

Judgemental people are a pain, I don’t think I ever met any in real life, I know I am lucky. Well some of my family members had a problem with my vegetarianism but I only met them like once a year and it didn’t bother me. Even they didn’t want to change me just couldn’t comprehend my decision. Keto and carnivore was no problem, there was a ton of meat whenever I visited.
I rarely talked about other people about food, I am not that social but when I did, I never could shock anyone, boring :upside_down_face: Maybe my country and circles are just tolerant? I did shock vegans online. 1. Eating corpses?! 2. NOT eating grains?! It seemed point #2 was more of a problem for one :smiley: I don’t know why but some vegans have this Holy Grains Syndrome. Everyone must worship and consume them… Can’t imagine why… I could write an essay about why it would be a horrible idea for me (and I do eat grains sometimes. I bake very pretty and tasty things and I can handle an off day here and there… but it’s not good food for me for multiple reasons).

But I got carried away as usual…

Not all vegans and vegetarians are the same regarding these. And of course, no animal fat except butter for vegetarians either. But if a vegetarian is very serious, many (probably most?) cheeses are out as well… I don’t understand the fuss, an ovo and/or lacto vegetarian diet depends on mass animal killing anyway… But of course, vegan food causes tons of animal deaths as well…
Vegan diet should be even simpler, no animal matter at all. But some brings nuances, some aren’t vegan just says so… So I understand it’s not clear for you.
People just can’t define things black and white. Carnivore means different things for different people too. It’s supposed to be only animal products but people add this, take out that…

Vegetarians aren’t so hard to accomodate (unless they are choosy. vegetarian keto with extra rules started to get tricky :wink: ) and the food may be okay for “meat eaters” as well… (In some cases even for carnivores. I always loved my eggs.) IDK how to call people who eat meat AND plants too. “Meat eater” sounds more like carnivore to me… I can’t say omnivore as vegetarians are omnivores too except if they are vegans but then they call themselves vegans or people doing a plant-based diet or something, I don’t want to go into the difference, I don’t even care about it much. But many vegans are big on it.

I can imagine that in some cases the hostess have enough work with the non-vegetarian options so I never expected others to cook for me. But my family members did (except the ones who couldn’t understand vegetarianism I suppose, I don’t really remember what I ate there. But it was my family so I could buy something and cook for myself, I could cook years earlier than going vegetarian). I was touched :slight_smile: Getting carnivore meals weren’t/aren’t that perfect but usually close enough (if I was serious and didn’t jump the nice carby sides or desserts… but that was on me). And eventually everyone learned that a single chicken leg isn’t enough for me.
What I hated when there was some fun time with coworkers and there was vegetarian food and all was eaten up by the others (who had their own meaty dish but they liked the vegetarian option) and I stayed hungry…

No but I probably agree with most as it seems it works for them. People shouldn’t eat the way I eat, it’s for me at this point of my journey. I don’t disagree with my SO’s diet (it’s a health-conscious HCHF one) as it seems to be perfect for him. I consider a very wide range of diets fine and healthy - for the right person. I do hate some insane diets with a passion (don’t mention fruitarians to me, it’s INSANE) and can’t understand raw veganism (I knew some raw vegans as it’s a thing in this country and I had a phase when I had raw vegan dishes, they helped me a lot when I was a newbie ketoer too but it was just a fun and sometimes useful tiny addition as I can’t imagine ever getting satiated by such dishes when I am a bit hungry to begin with… I have read on raw vegan blogs how some people eat, well I could only starve on that).

So? Who says we need to eat Every. Food. Groups? Not someone who knows about nutrition for sure!
People often talk about balanced diets. And I say, yep, it’s important. I have a balanced carnivore diet on my good days :slight_smile: I do my best to get my nutrients, adding some plants hardly would help so it is balanced, I just suspect most people think about way too many food groups there… :slight_smile:

My noticeable fart amount went from little to zero when I went keto.
And I never understood why people say that people who eat many eggs a day have horrid fart problems, a lot of smelly fart. I surely had none with 7-8 a day as I didn’t eat the carbs that made the gas before. And I ate this many with some carbs too on low-carb (significant amount of carbs) and still had no such problems. Maybe it’s individual too… But obviously (to me, at least), I had no legumes on low-carb and those are the big contributors in my case…

(Brian) #14

I feel sorry for them. There are different reasons why they may be where they are but I feel like they’ve shorted themselves on actual, real, quality nutrition, the building blocks of the human body, and that includes the brain.

I know some of them who are convinced it’s the way to God’s approval. That’s a really hard place to reach with any voice of reason.

#15

Confirmation bias. Sadly, everything seems to be polarizing in today’s world. It used to be, “Never talk about religion or politics.” We all have our own silos to protect. Vegans are no different.
Take the example of actors. Jimmy Stewart and Henry Fonda. They had nothing in common: Henry Fonda was an agnostic; Jimmy Stewart was a churchgoing Presbyterian. Fonda was a Democrat; Stewart was a conservative Republican. Fonda had had five wives and often difficult relationships with his children, while Jimmy had one wife and was adored by his children. And yet, in spite of their many differences, these tall, gifted stars of Hollywood’s Golden Age would maintain a 50-year close friendship that lasted through war, marriage, children, careers, and everything in between.
On my wife’s side of the family, we have militant vegans. I know better now than to engage with them on health and diet issues, as it will not end well. The positives are that they are productive citizens and good parents. Enjoy the music.

(Robin) #16

I was vegan for MANY years. First for “ethical” reasons, then because I felt great, lost weight and had tons of energy. (Sound familiar?) I had NO prejudices or negative feelings about meat eaters and. I never preached or tried to influence anyone else.

What tickles me is how WE can be absolutely as critical and judgmental about vegans as we accuse them of being.

(Brian) #17

Hmmm… I’m not sure I’d go that far. But the thing of it is, I’ve been down that road personally. I absolutely understand that some people feel great… for a while. I’ve hit the brick wall that sits waiting for many a ways down that road, the one where you’re body isn’t feeling better anymore, it’s worse, you’re approaching T2D despite following the favored guidelines, the bones not doin’ so well, the brain not doin’ so well. Been there. And very much glad to share with people close to me if they’re interested. But some of them have to hit the brick wall before they’ll ever even consider that there could be issues with that WOE. I’ve even met people who would rather die or suffer badly and unnecessarily than admit there could possibly be anything wrong with their WOE, very sad to see that happen.

My brother and I are probably closer than most siblings. But there are certain topics we just disagree on. We pretty much know what those are and we’ve each chosen our paths. We don’t fight or argue over them. One thing about it, though, either of us have the freedom to change our minds if we choose to do so. That can happen over time as we mature and learn and our perceptions change.

(Michael) #18

I have a close work colleague who is a vegan. She was pretty healthy a few years ago, but in the past 5 years she has gained a TON of weight. We like each other a lot, and do not discuss our diets very much (we accept each other as is). Having said this, when I found out her child was born with some mental issues, I had to stop myself from commenting on her diet as being the most likely cause of the babies difficulties. While I suspect that is true, that would have been the end of our friendship had I said anything, which would of course have been presumptuous anyway. I could not know either way.

Having said this, if I watch a video and it is by a self proclaimed vegan, I am likely to move on without finishing the video.

(Geoffrey) #19

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(Robin) #20

Wise man to keep that thought to yourself. My adult son is autistic with some retardation. Had anyone said words to that effect to me… well, not worth finishing that sentence.