Does anyone know anybody who has been keto & died from Covid-19?


#62

perhaps… idk, I find this tough. So many variables and questions. What if the 30yo has been reading immunology articles and understands that another corona virus will be coming down the pike in the next few years and ongoing exposure to corona virus mutations among younger people is our best insurance against this kind of debacle for later years?


#63

idk… maybe. I do think there’s a pretty big social pressure aspect to it. As I’ve said above, I don’t mind wearing masks but I do mind the self-righteousness that so often goes along with mask advocacy, especially from folks (and I don’t mean anyone on here) who haven’t actually looked past the headlines to expose themselves to more of the research.


(bulkbiker) #64

If you live in a glass tank with another unattached head then be very afraid I guess…


(Ethan) #65

Except that the vaccine is probably a better way to more safely get cross-immune reactivity, and it is not at all close to known how likely another coronavirus will be with serious consequences in the next 5 years.


#66

there have been a lot of corona viruses and it’s quite likely that there will continue to be more of them just like there are many influenzas that come back year after year. The vaccine is probably (maybe?) a better way, but the hypothetical 30yo in your example might have information or insight that leads him to believe that he’s acting in the best interests of future generations. But you would still prioritize the mask-wearing 90yo?
I realize that all of this is hypothetical; I just want to use it to illustrate the complexity of the situation. Within your narrative, someone who doesn’t follow the mask and distancing guidelines is being irresponsible. Within mine, we are playing fast and loose with the future of our young people with our policies. When we look back on this time, we’ll likely see that we both have some valid points, but it’s hard to justify penalizing someone because they have a different narrative (that might be just as community minded as yours is!).


#67

A motorcycle helmet won’t stop you being cleaned up by a delivery truck but it may ensure you don’t end up with a fatal head injury. Masks may reduce the initial viral load and thus reduce the severity of illness.


#68

This is what I’ve been assuming and why I wear a mask even taking a walk by myself on the street, but I just heard a talk today from someone who made a pretty strong case for masks essentially creating an aerosol spray of the virus (which, actually, might not be too bad a thing if the goal is to spread it around in small doses). I’ll link the talk if I can find it.


(Ethan) #69

Im not sure. I’m saying this as I hear of a family
I know that had an indoor gathering/celebration where somebody was unknowingly infectious. Some 30+ people got sick and one person is now in the ICU with multiple organ failure and a real possibility to not survive.


#70

Well that’s not my goal but if I have to encounter it I’d certainly prefer a small dose :slightly_smiling_face:


(I admin it, that’s a terrible pun.) #71

So masks are intended to protect the wearer? Then shouldn’t it be the individuals right to decide whether or not to wear the mask, just like the motorcycle rider chooses not to wear a helmet?

Thank you Ethan, for getting this topic back to the original question. First, I’m very sorry to hear about this person in the hospital. Do you know any details about their metabolic health prior to catching COVID-19?

The one person I’ve personally know to die from it, my Sister’s ex-boyfriend, was very obese and in very poor health to begin with. So my answer to the original question is, no. I haven’t know anyone who was keto and died from COVID-19.


#72

It offers some protection to the wearer and the people around them. We’re all in this together whether we like it or not.


(Polly) #73

Except that according to the only RCT study (the Danish mask study) it makes no significant difference.


#74

One RCT in Denmark vs the combined experience of the worlds public health and infectious diseases experts plus the experience of those nations that have masked up and seen the benefits. OK then.


(Laurie) #75

I know a bit about scientific studies. They have limitations, and they disagree. So I don’t take any one study too seriously, especially in a new field.


(bulkbiker) #76

Which would be which countries…?
Belgium has incredilly strict mask rules,… they have to be worn everywhere indoors and out (crazy I know).
Last time I looked it had the highest detah rate per million of population in the World.


#77

This really stinks :frowning:


#78

I think the issue is that smaller particles are more easily absorbed (they go deeper into the lungs), so therefore can be more dangerous- but with this, as with other aspects of this virus and the measures to control it, there are so many variables (what kind of mask, how is it worn, how often is it cleaned, is the person breathing through nose or mouth… it’s a really long list). To me it makes some sense to wear them and masks reassure some of the people around me, but I wouldn’t consider any of the studies conclusive. Too much we don’t really know…


(Jack Bennett) #79

Circling back to the original question: at least in the USA, it looks like there have been ~250K deaths as of mid-November in a population of ~300M. That’s approximately 1 in 1000 or 0.1%.

I don’t know the percentage of people correctly following a real keto diet, but I suspect it’s not greater than 1% [1].

So we would already be looking for overlap in two very small fractions of the population.

Further, a pretty plausible hypothesis is that long-term keto practice vastly lowers the chances of bad outcomes due to covid. My guess is that few to no serious keto practitioners would die of covid unless there were other circumstances: e.g. if they had other significant comorbidities like extant pulmonary disease, if they were still early in their keto journey and still showing significant metabolic disease, if they were immunocompromised in some other way.


[1] For example, I do not count my former coworker who declared himself regularly as “doing keto”. He would eat spaghetti for lunch or McDonalds pancakes for breakfast.


(Ethan) #80

As right as you may be, more direct evidence seems to exist that just giving vitamin d has a profound impact on severity and outcome


(I admin it, that’s a terrible pun.) #81

Amen to that!

Look, I don’t want to mis-represent myself here. I wear a mask when I’m out in public, and at the office we’re required to wear masks, unless we’re sitting alone at our desk. I don’t want anyone to think I am crying “personal freedoms” or anything like that. The effectiveness of masks is not the hill I plan to die on.

Thank you, Madeline. There are many questions that still need to be answered.

Excellent point, Jack. And thank you for steering us back on topic.

Ethan, I also agree this evidence exists, and I have personally talked to others I work with about it. It just doesn’t seem they share my conviction. At least as far as I know. :slightly_frowning_face: